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Old 03-06-2010, 03:42 PM
 
Location: Boise
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I have never bought into the idea that you have to fear someone in order for them to love you. We wouldn't love a terrorist would we? When we're afraid of spiders and we see one we say "s#%t I hate spiders"! If we're afraid of getting killed by someone, we aren't about to love them....

Some say that we have to be afraid of god to love/be loved by god. For those of you, I see a couple problems with that. If the only way to love is through fear, then god would have to fear us as well for that love to work. And I can't imagine a single reason for god to be afraid of us. So maybe it isn't like that all the time... maybe only some of the time fear leads to love. But then that means that either fear or love is being inconsistent.

How can we say that love comes from fear, or are there even that many people who still think this?
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Old 03-06-2010, 04:12 PM
 
Location: Log home in the Appalachians
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Like in the Wizard of Oz, everybody feared the all great and power Oz until you took a look behind the curtain........and found out it was all a big lie..
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Old 03-06-2010, 05:18 PM
 
Location: Blankity-blank!
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Fear is a great way to manipulate people.
The whole concept of love has been mutilated, twisted, and degraded by religion, all in the defense of a myth and god.
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Old 03-06-2010, 05:20 PM
 
Location: Mississippi
6,715 posts, read 12,058,516 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ptsum View Post
Like in the Wizard of Oz, everybody feared the all great and power Oz until you took a look behind the curtain........and found out it was all a big lie..
Actually, it was a big lie contained within a dream.
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Old 03-06-2010, 07:43 PM
 
Location: Texas
4,346 posts, read 5,578,222 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GCSTroop View Post
Actually, it was a big lie contained within a dream.
Or as one put it
Quote:
It's a paradox, disguised as a quagmire, trapped inside of an enigma
People see a reflection of their own ideas when they read words on paper. On the surface the bible contradicts because Paul (the apostolic one) says "There is NO FEAR in love. Love has torment. Perfect love casts out fear".

So when I read Proverbs I read it "Respect for the Eternal One is the beginning of wisdom".
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Old 03-07-2010, 06:12 AM
 
Location: Florida
478 posts, read 638,717 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cleatis View Post
I have never bought into the idea that you have to fear someone in order for them to love you. We wouldn't love a terrorist would we? When we're afraid of spiders and we see one we say "s#%t I hate spiders"! If we're afraid of getting killed by someone, we aren't about to love them....

Some say that we have to be afraid of god to love/be loved by god. For those of you, I see a couple problems with that. If the only way to love is through fear, then god would have to fear us as well for that love to work. And I can't imagine a single reason for god to be afraid of us. So maybe it isn't like that all the time... maybe only some of the time fear leads to love. But then that means that either fear or love is being inconsistent.

How can we say that love comes from fear, or are there even that many people who still think this?

Well, we can't say that love comes from fear, not if we are to be honest. But, to address the second part of your last query; yes, sadly, there are many people who DO think that fear is a part of love...but nothing could be farther from the truth. Love, if it is real and true, NEVER comes from fear- only fear comes from fear. And any subsequent emotions, though very real, are simply offshoots and/or misinterpreted and disguised aspects of the core or root emotion of fear...

Here's an example to illustrate my point: Imagine a woman who is abused by a man (either physically or emotionally or both). The man/abuser threatens the woman, and perhaps hits her or, verbally, makes her feel small and inadequate somehow. Now a strong woman would leave faster than poop through a goose. But a weak, insecure woman, in addition to accepting and tolerating the abuse, will likely acquiesce and rescind in whatever way she believes is the best way to make herself "perfect" enough to where said abuser will find no fault with her. As if that could ever happen; as if said abuser actually "loves" her. He does not. Love does not abuse, belittle, nor do anything other than build, back, and beautify that which allows it. But those desperate to feel "love", and who have difficulty finding said love within themselves, and feel the need to seek love externally are most likely to fall victim to the sadistic and underhanded ploys of organized religions such as the fundamentalist ilk and others similar. And those aforementioned outfits who do that- what seems like nothing more than brainwashing and gaining believers by praying on their fears, is the exact same scenario. That the "victims"- those who speak of god being wrathful, punishing and ugly remind me of- to a damn near exact, linear parallel as the abused woman syndrome. Think about it...

Seems some people literally live in a state of constant fear and concern of doing that which they believe "pleases" their god within confines of outdated "christian" scripture, without thought to living to the fullest extent of their own being- thereby TRULY living as god would have it...??? Seriously, how is it that people do not see that to love god is to LOVE ONE'S SELF. For you cannot truly love another until you love yourself. Likewise, if you fear god- it goes without saying you FEAR YOURSELF. And will of course fear others. Hence the very conundrum with which our society is poisoned, and thus the reason for this post...

God isn't about control, obedience, nor any other out-of-touch word anyone wants to dig out of the christian bible. Personally- I believe god is all love, unconditional. Period. And to those who argue otherwise- well, if there is doubt that god is anything but upwards of good, then please explain how that can be?! How can god be loving, and yet judgemental and a force to be feared? Keep in mind, god is NOT human, and does not posses human traits that WAY too many people like to give "him"...but, assuming you are glued to the notion of god being able to love and judge and hate all at once then, why, would you be willing to love and live for an entity so prone to inconsistency and abusive in power, unless you were in fear of said entity?!?
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Old 03-08-2010, 09:59 AM
 
1,168 posts, read 1,045,968 times
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As a child...in a normal family estate..is told do not do this or that, for if you do I will punish you severly, by the parent....when the child does something wrong out of the foretold foolishly...does it not bring the wrath of the parents down on them when found out??...when this is occurring does the child not fear the wrath of the parent???

So in likeness God is the same way...he says do this, don't do that, and leave this alone...

Now look at the world....we do not do what God said to do, We do what God said not to do, and we abuse the things he said not to touch....and see what has come of it...all of it...and say to me when the wrath comes, they do not know why, and they do not fear....for in time the wrath will come for those who do the opposite of God's word and will.

And it is because God love us, but wants to teach us a lesson in obediance...that is righteous, and good, and sound, and helpful to the whole creation.

Anyother direction is detramental to the self, and the whole creation...which seems to be the road we are on....

Now we can see, and we know, and we can fortell the future...if this continues WE are the destroyers of the planet..." woe to them who harm the Earth.."

And it will be known...That although the signs were showing, and the world was being polluted with no worries, or care for the others? our Neighbours!!
Humakind has become selfish, and stupid with their conduct...and have destroyed the spirit of life in the planet...for False profits and gains in dead things, and fancy luxuries....

Will they change to the betterment of the planet?

Only time will tell?...how many times do we get to make this right?....it should be done the first time round...for it is wise to do the service and to stand sinless before God...Then no punishment is required!

Last edited by Sir Les; 03-08-2010 at 10:09 AM..
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Old 03-08-2010, 12:10 PM
 
5,905 posts, read 5,089,237 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Les View Post
As a child...in a normal family estate..is told do not do this or that, for if you do I will punish you severly, by the parent....when the child does something wrong out of the foretold foolishly...does it not bring the wrath of the parents down on them when found out??...when this is occurring does the child not fear the wrath of the parent???
Good grief, is that how you raised your children??

Mine always responded best to firm and respectful discipline, not by anger, rage, or threats (their father).

Love-via-wrath is a twisted and destructive concept in childrearing, equally so in religion.
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Old 03-08-2010, 02:00 PM
 
Location: Indianapolis
4,325 posts, read 5,141,315 times
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There are no conditions on love. Love is kind, gentle, merciful, compassionate and all that is positive. Anything that is other than positive is not love but control. Threatening a child to do right is not love. It is fear. My parents used to threaten with punishment. We learned to fear our parents and never knew what real love was. It leaves a big scar that can only be healed through love. I was lucky and found that Love. My parent (mother) does not think she or my father did anything wrong because they have never found love.
God is in no way a negative. He is all positive and to say that we have to fear God in order to Love Him is just mans way of controlling others to do their bidding. God would never tell me I have to do something or else. He always asks.
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Old 03-08-2010, 02:48 PM
 
Location: Metromess
11,798 posts, read 21,403,937 times
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The god of Judeo-Christianity practices an incredibly 'tough' form of 'love', if one can call it that.
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