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Old 03-13-2010, 05:35 AM
 
142 posts, read 214,624 times
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Can we really say we should know how a perfect God should behave? What is our definition of a perfect being to one such as this? One whose word is not law but reality.

I think it's dangerous to say, well since you are supposedly perfect, my definition of perfect says that you need to do this, this, and this while in reality our limited knowledge doesn't allow us to comprehend a fraction of what is really going on.
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Old 03-13-2010, 06:16 AM
 
17,853 posts, read 11,763,197 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haaziq View Post
So how did god come into existence?

Don't worry, I'll wait.
There's a big bang joke here somewhere...
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Old 03-13-2010, 09:44 AM
Status: "Build the damn wall!" (set 12 days ago)
 
Location: The Haunted Mansion
15,202 posts, read 8,247,063 times
Reputation: 1547
Quote:
Originally Posted by Konraden View Post
Because no argument of "God always existed" cannot also be used to say "the universe always existed," or better yet, "the Flying Spaghetti Monster always existed." After all, our noodliness, the FSM, created Jehovah in the first place.
Thank you for that non-answer.
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Old 03-13-2010, 11:00 AM
 
2,981 posts, read 4,309,220 times
Reputation: 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bud235 View Post
God is a made-up figure by man
Isn't it true?
You got that backwards.
Man/Adam, is a "made figure of God", by God.

Rom 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
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Old 03-13-2010, 11:35 AM
 
598 posts, read 811,030 times
Reputation: 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by yeshuasavedme View Post
You got that backwards.
Man/Adam, is a "made figure of God", by God.

Rom 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
Moderator cut: insult to all believers

Man/Adam/Eve, God are all human inventions -- they are fictional figures.

"Wrath", "hell" ... are used to coerce followers.

Last edited by Miss Blue; 03-16-2010 at 06:14 PM.. Reason: IQ of 4 yr old is insulting
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Old 03-13-2010, 11:50 AM
 
7,654 posts, read 9,680,006 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bud235 View Post
I don't think so.

Man's existence is testable/verifiable; God's existence is not testable/verifiable.

Man is known to make up lies for monetary and political control reasons.

GOD'S EXISTENCE IS TESTABLE. I know, because I have run a lifetime of such tests. The problem comes in, when some here come with their pre existing beliefs. And then makes statements like. "God's existence is not testable/verifiable." How would you know? Did you ever once ever test God in prayer? Did you ever once ask God to prove Himself to you? What do you base your claim on? What does man making lies for political control, have to do with a one on one relationship with GOD?
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Old 03-13-2010, 12:48 PM
 
3,614 posts, read 2,953,618 times
Reputation: 909
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dredre View Post
Can we really say we should know how a perfect God should behave? What is our definition of a perfect being to one such as this? One whose word is not law but reality.I think it's dangerous to say, well since you are supposedly perfect, my definition of perfect says that you need to do this, this, and this while in reality our limited knowledge doesn't allow us to comprehend a fraction of what is really going on.
The definition of perfect is something that doesn't require anything else. Free of flaws. Requiring something else means it is entirely contained within itself, i.e., contains flaws.

Creation means intent means requirement: need, want, or desire. As I said. God isn't perfect or God didn't create. As I said--QED.



Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
Thank you for that non-answer.
You asked why it was a double standard and a cop out. It's because you're saying that God is somehow special because He can exist forever while the universe can't, without being able to provide sound reasoning why. It's a double standard, and a cop out because "god says so\did it\etc" is a thought terminating cliche.

Quote:
Originally Posted by yeshuasavedme View Post
You got that backwards.
Man/Adam, is a "made figure of God", by God.

Rom 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
News flash. Death existed before Adam and Eve "sinned."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Campbell34 View Post
GOD'S EXISTENCE IS TESTABLE. I know, because I have run a lifetime of such tests.
Anecdotal. Please continue.

Quote:
The problem comes in, when some here come with their pre existing beliefs.
Oh the irony.

Quote:
And then makes statements like. "God's existence is not testable/verifiable." How would you know? Did you ever once ever test God in prayer?
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/31/health/31pray.html
HMS Press Release:

Quote:
Did you ever once ask God to prove Himself to you?
People do this every day. You know what happens when God doesn't answer?
Friendly Atheist by @hemantsblog Another Faith Healing Death
Oregon Couple Convicted in Son's Faith Healing Death Face Jail - Local News | News Articles | National News | US News - FOXNews.com
Trial Begins in Girl's Faith-Healing Death - CBS News

Quote:
What do you base your claim on? What does man making lies for political control, have to do with a one on one relationship with GOD?
Because pretending to know what God wants and does means you can have absolute control over people. Don't have sex until marriage, God says so. Don't eat shellfish, God says so. Give money to the church, God says so.

Of course, what you do with your imaginary friend on your own time really isn't any of my business. As has been repeated a thousand times over, however, your religion and your friend need to stay out of our government. It's for the best for both of us.
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Old 03-13-2010, 03:04 PM
 
7,654 posts, read 9,680,006 times
Reputation: 495
Quote:
Originally Posted by Konraden View Post
The definition of perfect is something that doesn't require anything else. Free of flaws. Requiring something else means it is entirely contained within itself, i.e., contains flaws.

Creation means intent means requirement: need, want, or desire. As I said. God isn't perfect or God didn't create. As I said--QED.





You asked why it was a double standard and a cop out. It's because you're saying that God is somehow special because He can exist forever while the universe can't, without being able to provide sound reasoning why. It's a double standard, and a cop out because "god says so\did it\etc" is a thought terminating cliche.



News flash. Death existed before Adam and Eve "sinned."



Anecdotal. Please continue.



Oh the irony.



http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/31/health/31pray.html
HMS Press Release:



People do this every day. You know what happens when God doesn't answer?
Friendly Atheist by @hemantsblog Another Faith Healing Death
Oregon Couple Convicted in Son's Faith Healing Death Face Jail - Local News | News Articles | National News | US News - FOXNews.com
Trial Begins in Girl's Faith-Healing Death - CBS News



Because pretending to know what God wants and does means you can have absolute control over people. Don't have sex until marriage, God says so. Don't eat shellfish, God says so. Give money to the church, God says so.

Of course, what you do with your imaginary friend on your own time really isn't any of my business. As has been repeated a thousand times over, however, your religion and your friend need to stay out of our government. It's for the best for both of us.




Maybe if our government had imbraced some of the Biblical principals as a nation, we would not find ourselves in the trouble we do now. And I believe our government should be represented by all of it's people, not just yours.

And what may be Anecdotal to you, is knowingly true to me, because I am aware of GOD'S reality. The God I believe in, is not just some historical figure. He is not just someone I follow because I was told to do so. The God I believe in, has contacted me, and has proven Himself to me on numerous occasions. Once He reminded me to pray about getting a job, and as soon as I finished my prayer and said the (A) of Amen. The phone next to me started to ring, and when I picked up that phone. I got the job. And I was still on my knees. Another time, He interrupted me while I was in the middle of a prayer, and told me my wife was going to have a child. Four hours later, my wife and I discovered she was pregnant. Another time, I told Jesus I loved Him. And about 45 seconds later, a ten inch red ballon came down from high up in the sky, and squeezed through a four inch gate opening in a fence. It almost hit me in my face, yet I caught it in my hands. And when I turned it over, printed on the other side of that balloon were the words. "I LOVE YOU."

And not having sex before marriage, often helps to bring about a more stable society, where children are actually loved, and other children are not rip apart in abortion clinics. And that is one of the reasons, the Biblical God said to keep sex within the marriage.
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Old 03-13-2010, 06:04 PM
 
3,614 posts, read 2,953,618 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Campbell34 View Post
Maybe if our government had imbraced some of the Biblical principals as a nation, we would not find ourselves in the trouble we do now. And I believe our government should be represented by all of it's people, not just yours.
I would rather prefer a secular national government which keeps each religion to its own devices and protects all people. However, considering we already have blue-laws, I don't think anyone actually kept to that ideal. I can guarantee you wouldn't want Islamic principles in our nations government, why would I want Christian ones?

Quote:
And what may be Anecdotal to you, is knowingly true to me, because I am aware of GOD'S reality.
I hear drinking bleach will cure cancer. Don't worry about scientific evidence and rigorous testing, I know it to be true because I am aware of how bleach interacts with cancerous tissue. We should enact laws based on this.

Quote:
The God I believe in, is not just some historical figure. He is not just someone I follow because I was told to do so. The God I believe in, has contacted me, and has proven Himself to me on numerous occasions. Once He reminded me to pray about getting a job, and as soon as I finished my prayer and said the (A) of Amen. The phone next to me started to ring, and when I picked up that phone. I got the job. And I was still on my knees.
Anecdote not supported by third-party independent investigation. I once heard that eating the heart of a lion can extend your life by 30 years. You have to kill the lion with your bare hands though in order to maintain the structural integrity of the heart's valves.

Quote:
Another time, He interrupted me while I was in the middle of a prayer, and told me my wife was going to have a child. Four hours later, my wife and I discovered she was pregnant. Another time, I told Jesus I loved Him. And about 45 seconds later, a ten inch red ballon came down from high up in the sky, and squeezed through a four inch gate opening in a fence. It almost hit me in my face, yet I caught it in my hands. And when I turned it over, printed on the other side of that balloon were the words. "I LOVE YOU."
One time, at band camp... Telling fanciful stories doesn't actually help you at all. I can think of a number of things that don't involve supernatural entities to explain your coincidences, namely of which, is a coincidence. There are a number of crazy things going on at any one time, it would be a coincidence not to have a coincidence. Of course, auditory hallucinations are nothing new for devout theists.

Quote:
And not having sex before marriage, often helps to bring about a more stable society, where children are actually loved, and other children are not rip apart in abortion clinics. And that is one of the reasons, the Biblical God said to keep sex within the marriage.
Big words. Got evidence that premarital sex destroys societies? That children are not loved by unwed parents? That--well I have no doubt you're anti-choice so I won't bother with that argument, it just goes around and around.
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Old 03-13-2010, 06:45 PM
 
Location: An absurd world.
5,165 posts, read 8,084,963 times
Reputation: 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
Thank you for that non-answer.
You just proved my point. Thanks for that.
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