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Old 03-13-2010, 10:11 AM
 
783 posts, read 1,160,038 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KCfromNC View Post
This contradicts your claim that everyone has faith in something. Which one is it?
Contradiction? Please explain how it contradicts the fact that everyone has some form of faith.
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Old 03-13-2010, 01:02 PM
 
3,614 posts, read 2,954,198 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Salt & Light View Post
Your belief is your faith. Your faith simply dictates that you stuff the Creator in a ďboxĒ and attempt to explain it away as myth while ignoring overwhelming evidence and law.
What evidence. What law.

Quote:
Ignoring design requires far more faith than acknowledging itís presence.
Your God has must be a incompetent blind lepur with a missing hand and a mean streak, because none of "this" appears well designed.
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Old 03-13-2010, 01:39 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles
206 posts, read 350,118 times
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Assuming you believe in the myth of Adam and Eve to be true, then you must accept that God is the most vengeful,hateful creature there is in the face of the universe.

Most humans will forgive any serious transgression and will not hold a grudge against the child for the parent's sins much less six or ten generations later. Yet all God told Adam and Eve is don't eat an apple and they spent all eternity there and out of curiosity eat the darn apple. For this all their descendents have been cursed by this evil entity and are doomed , unless of course they accept his son who he sent to be tortured to death . I mean he is God-why can't he just snap his fingers and say here you are all blessed and healed-why send his son to be trotured and oh well?

Most humans I know have way more compassion than this God-if a human did that, punishing every generation with eternal damnation, simply because one of their distant forefathers ate an apple-than I would consider them evil, not good.
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Old 03-13-2010, 02:29 PM
 
12,507 posts, read 13,120,860 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terryj View Post
Seeings how there are a number of different religions in the world, all claiming to have the "religious truth" but differing in that truth.

what part of "many paths, one mountain" is so hard to understand?

people seek to be in relationship with the Divine; different religions all have that in common

no contradiction at all
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Old 03-13-2010, 03:37 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles
206 posts, read 350,118 times
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That is true. Me personally I have explored quite a few and increasingly feel that whatever is out there is way beyond this tiny head of mine. It is like an ant trying to understand the solar system. I certainly believe that there is something there and the more I let go of human constructs, it is almost easier to reach/feel it. Nothing wrong with human constructs-they help the mind define what is being experienced. But unfortunately, they are static-what somebody experienced 1000s of years ago is considered the absolute truth and if you don't experience the same thing, then you are not experiencing the one true way. After a while that becomes a hindarance.
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Old 03-13-2010, 05:06 PM
 
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Is circular-logic a common problem among religions?
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Old 03-13-2010, 05:45 PM
 
Location: Nashville, Tn
7,916 posts, read 16,414,142 times
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Salt & Light wrote:
Quote:
Ignoring design requires far more faith than acknowledging itís presence.
The concept of design is one of the most important points that believers in a creator present as being central to their system of belief. Anything that appears to be organized and symmetrical would seem to be extremely improbable in nature and yet a single snowflake in a blizzard with billions of other snowflakes exhibits this characteristic and at first glance it would appears to be designed but it's really the result of the temperature, amount of humidity, and other factors that cause it to have a unique shape that is slightly different than any other snowflake.
Believers often confuse the difference between items that were manufactured by human beings such as watches and airplanes and they try to suggest that human beings and life itself also exhibit the exact same qualities as these man-made items so they tell us that there must be some master builder who has human like abilities to create something but on a much vaster scale. The problem with that argument is that they have no understanding of how natural processes such as evolution could produce variations in living organisms by the process of natural selection without having to imagine a God who has planned all of this in advance with a particular goal in mind.
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Old 03-13-2010, 08:06 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles
206 posts, read 350,118 times
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I think the problem is when you apply faith and try and extend it to science. That is when you get people believing dinosaurs and humans lived together .

To me I keep the realms separate. Science is science. When I go to the surgeon or a doctor, I need to know that he is doing science not some mystical god . BUt on a personal level, I seek a connection to something bigger than me.

Now, what I don't know is if this something exists and if it does, in what shape form etc.. I have explored multiple religions and haven't really found anything substantive. So I truge along and that something bigger than me , I feel when I am in nature, watching the sunset over the ocean or just about any remote place in nature. I also see nature is just the cycle of life and I too am part of the ebb and flow of life. So I search for a meaning and I look back and realize no human being has ever found the meaning and the chances are slim that I am going to be the one that finds it! Now of course many religions claim they have the meaning-but to me I need proof-not some bunch of words that can never been verified.


So back to the OP. I guess to me faith is just believing that there might be something out there and in the grand scheme of things I may be no different than an ant or a dragon fly .

But for all other things, I am perfectly comfortable with science-for there is proof and can be repeated. Kinda confusing-but it is a strange field. is there a God-is it a he, she , it , void, non existant etc. Fascinating. But I guess life would be boring if we knew everything !!
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Old 03-13-2010, 09:15 PM
 
783 posts, read 1,160,038 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Konraden View Post
What evidence. What law.
Laws of nature; for example the law that something canít come from nothing. Another example is the second law of thermodynamics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Konraden View Post
Your God has must be a incompetent blind lepur with a missing hand and a mean streak, because none of "this" appears well designed.
Two ways God has spoken or revealed Himself:
1) Natural Revelation Ė in creation; Psalm 19:1 says, "The heavens declare the glory of God, and the firmament showeth his handiwork." You can't see all that God has made and not conclude someone made it. Design implies a designer. In Romans 1 the apostle Paul expands that concept. Verses 18-20 say, "The wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness, because that which may be known of God is manifest in them [a reference to conscience]; for God hath shown it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse." So, both the created world and man's conscience tell him that someone made it.

2) Miracles Ė God accompanied His Word with signs to show that it was indeed His Word. Miracles attested to the truthfulness of Jesus and the apostles. The Israelites seemed more responsive to the gospel after they witnessed Peter miraculously healing the sick (cf., Acts 3:4- 9). Second Corinthians 12:12 says, "Truly the signs of an apostle were wrought among you in all patience, in signs, and wonders, and mighty deeds." Those signs confirmed the Word.
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Old 03-13-2010, 09:26 PM
 
Location: An absurd world.
5,165 posts, read 8,086,027 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Salt & Light View Post
Laws of nature; for example the law that something canít come from nothing.
And who exactly made the claim that something can come from nothing?

Don't worry, I'll wait.
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