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Old 03-13-2010, 04:52 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bud235 View Post
God never speaks for himself.

That leaves everything for humans to put words in God's mouth: religions wars, bigotry, terrorism, racism ... all done in the name of God; everything ugly and bad all shoved in God's mouth.
Wait a minute now. I thought the bible was supposed to be the holy word of god??
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Old 03-13-2010, 06:29 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melvin.George View Post
Wait a minute now. I thought the bible was supposed to be the holy word of god??
Bible was written by humans -- with outdated human knowledge.
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Old 03-13-2010, 09:41 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nezlie View Post
S& L can you give an example or two?
Two ways God has spoken or revealed Himself:
1) Natural Revelation in creation; Psalm 19:1 says, "The heavens declare the glory of God, and the firmament showeth his handiwork." You can't see all that God has made and not conclude someone made it. Design implies a designer. In Romans 1 the apostle Paul expands that concept. Verses 18-20 say, "The wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness, because that which may be known of God is manifest in them [a reference to conscience]; for God hath shown it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse." So, both the created world and man's conscience tell him that someone made it.

2) Miracles God accompanied His Word with signs to show that it was indeed His Word. Miracles attested to the truthfulness of Jesus and the apostles. The Israelites seemed more responsive to the gospel after they witnessed Peter miraculously healing the sick (cf., Acts 3:4- 9). Second Corinthians 12:12 says, "Truly the signs of an apostle were wrought among you in all patience, in signs, and wonders, and mighty deeds." Those signs confirmed the Word.
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Old 03-14-2010, 05:40 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Salt & Light View Post
Two ways God has spoken or revealed Himself:
1) Natural Revelation – in creation; Psalm 19:1 says, "The heavens declare the glory of God, and the firmament showeth his handiwork." You can't see all that God has made and not conclude someone made it. Design implies a designer. In Romans 1 the apostle Paul expands that concept. Verses 18-20 say, "The wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness, because that which may be known of God is manifest in them [a reference to conscience]; for God hath shown it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse." So, both the created world and man's conscience tell him that someone made it.

2) Miracles – God accompanied His Word with signs to show that it was indeed His Word. Miracles attested to the truthfulness of Jesus and the apostles. The Israelites seemed more responsive to the gospel after they witnessed Peter miraculously healing the sick (cf., Acts 3:4- 9). Second Corinthians 12:12 says, "Truly the signs of an apostle were wrought among you in all patience, in signs, and wonders, and mighty deeds." Those signs confirmed the Word.
Seas parting long enough for the good guys to escape then drowning those who pursued them.

Big fish puking up live men

Raining 11 inches an hour till the highest mountains were covered then evaporating within a few weeks

Men surviving a 1200 degree furnace

Walls tumbling down at the sound of trumpets

virgin birth

healing by touching

Raising from the dead

Water turned into vintage wine

Walking on water

Feeding 5000 plus women and children who also ate with two fish and five loaves then gathering twelve baskets of leftovers

Resurrection

Reads like any other fiary tales I've ever heard about. 'Course I'm just 75 years old. Personally I prefer Jack and the Beanstalk. Mark Twain said, "Faith Is Believing What We Know Ain't True"

COUNT ME OUT!
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Old 03-14-2010, 08:56 AM
 
Location: Southern California
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bud235 View Post
Is there a hell? In real life, or in afterlife? Who will go, faithful will go? It's always the case that humans put words in God's mouth.

Occasionally, something does not round, just say:"God can not be understood by man".
Yes, there is a Hell, but it's a temporary place and not meant to be permanent. It's a place where some spirits, who were not very nice people on earth, go. When we pass over to the next world, it is our soul's condition that determines our first place of abode, as it is called. Our soul's condition is determined by how much sin and darkness is on it, in other words, it can be seen in the next life... your appearance changes and instead of being, let's say a white dude... now you are black and your features change... let's say you were a good looking guy... over there you will be ugly. Here, we know it by people's actions... did they kill someone, did they commit suicide, were they alcoholics and abused their family, did they perform abortions, did they hate everybody, did they shun our Heavenly Father... those kinds of people.

Let's say that a black man here was very honorable and he loved everybody and treated people with respect and kindness and he believed in our Heavenly Father and he prayed not only for himself but for others...then his soul's condition is one of purity... and when he passes into the spirit world, his soul will be light and all features of race will be gone.

Everyone who finds himself in Hell has the opportunity to become purified... just like that black man... and get out of Dodge. But it is a difficult row to hoe when you are in there because of the mental torture that you will have to experience. And this mental torture is brought about by our thoughts... ever heard this from the bible... our thoughts are things. This is true because our thoughts stay with us when we pass into the next world... they're not buried six feet under or are cremated and turned into ash. They are a part of our spiritual being and the recollections of what we did as humans plays over in our spiritual minds and we can see what we did... let's just say we are the actors in our lives and our own personal movie will be shown to us... what kind of movie do you want to see?

That's why it's a good thing to know this now... to prepare ourselves... I don't want to set one foot in hell... that's why I pray and receive God's Divine Love... because while I'm receiving it, any sins on my soul are being removed... I want this done ahead of the game... ever heard of the girl scout's motto... it's probably the same as the boy scouts... planning is everything... or here's another one... when you fail to plan, you plan to fail.

P.S. Our Heavenly Father wants us to know Him... not be some mystery.

http://truthforallpeople.com
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Old 03-14-2010, 10:01 AM
 
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Let's see...

"Be Meek"

"Turn The Other Cheek"

"Walk The Extra Mile"

"Love Thy Neighbor As You Love Yourself"

"If A Man Sues You In Court For Your Coat, Give Him Also Your Cloak"

"Love Your Enemies"

"Pray For Those Who Curse And Despise You"

"Be Ye Also Perfect Even As The Father Is Perfect"

"Sell what You Have And Give It To The Poor Then Take Up Your Cross And Follow Me."

Don't forget to give a tenth of everything you can get your hands on to the cause.

And about the hell thing being temporary:

In Matthew 25:41, Jesus says: "Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire,. . ."

There are 162 mentions of hell in the new testament, 70 by Jesus himself. Anybody who convinces themself that the messengers in the new testament aren't talking about real flames and for all eternity just simply has not read it or more than likely just does not understand it. As Yogi said..."It Says What It Says."

Jesus is adamant about those who divorce. If A person divorces for any reason other than infidelity they are doomed to eternal flames by Jesus himself. 'Course these days the Christian ministers have the search engines outsmarted by the use of metafiles and when you search a dozen pages of opinion come up before the first real scripture. When I want to know what's in the book I pick up a copy and read it.
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Old 03-14-2010, 10:48 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melvin.George View Post
My wife and I try to send $200 a month to a charity of our choice. Recently our pittance has been aimed at Haiti.

I know about the prayer stuff. When I was young back in the 1930's, 1940's Wednesday prayer meetings were packed with regular church members and the prayer lists were a foot and a half long. Every family had a member or a friend who was ailing with heart disease or cancer. Back then there was nothing they could do for anyone who had the diseases so they basically kept them comfortable while they died. Hundreds of billions of prayers were either ignored or unanswered.

Now the modern medical treatments and state-of-the-art technologies are available...MRI, CTS, heart bypass, stents, transplants, chemo, radiation, stem cell transplants etc. the same kind of patients live into their 80's and sometimes 90's. Prayer didn't have anything to do with their dying back then and it doesn't have anything to do with their living now.

Anyone who doubts the rate of death...take a look at the actuarial tables used by the insurance companies then and now. It's not rocket science.
Sometime in the early 1920s I believe my father had a disease called weeping exema. He was about 6 years old back then. And my grandmother had to keep his head wrapped in bandages to keep the puss from running down his head, and face. This condition lasted many months. And she went to countless doctors, but was always told there was no cure. Finally she walked down to the end of their block and entered a small church were a minister was working. She then asked if he would walk back to her house, and pray for her son to be healed. The minister asked if she thought that Jesus could still heal people like He did 2,000 years ago? My grandmother said she believe that He could. And with that, they walked together back to her home. My fathers dad was an atheist, and had little love for anyone from the church. He knew that this episode would be just another waste of time. Yet, felt that it might give my grandmother some comfort so he did not say anything. The minister prayed for my father, and shortly left after that. The next morning when my grandmother started to change my fathers bandges as she always did. She immediately let out a scream when she discovered that all the puss had dried up from the top of my fathers head, and just flaked down to the sheets. My atheist grandfather was in shock, and spent the rest of the day telling his co-workers how God had healed his son.

Of course advanced medical care will improve the chances of life. Just as you have a better chance at surviving a car accident if your wearing a seatbelt. Yet, there are times when an unseen force is also at work, and that fact should not be ignored either.
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Old 03-14-2010, 11:11 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel View Post
that is absolutely correct

God can however be experienced by humans
"experiencing" is so much more satisfying and delicious and rewarding than mere "understanding"
living life is far more fun than arguing about life. same with spirit.

the path to god is through the heart, not the intellect
I have to say Amen to that!!!!

But to be...or not to be...Here it is better to be, and to do what is righteous and proper, and honourable, and in likeness of GOD.,,,TO BECOME GOD'S CHILDREN....EVENTUALLY?

Isn't that our evolutionary path?....and it would seem God is a God of life...and life has a reality...to which it is born into.

Thus EDEN was made for US...and they all are partners in some fashion to that Ideal.... or they are not.

Now God's children Love Life...ALL LIFE is part or in part part of the creation or is the creation...

So Jesus says "Love eachother as I have loved you"...this Goes also for the sower of the seeds, which sustain the eco systems!!!
For it is with them that we have a reality to be in, to witness, and to judge be it good or bad...it all points to something of God, or as I like to proclaim...the opposite or anti God...anti Christ...Anti Eden ideals now being employed in the world for false profits and gains in wealth..and bent luxuries...that are now polluting the Earth with all kinds of vileness!

If we look at the big picture, and hear the words of our scientists, who are examining the eco systems..and see them failing, and being over mined, over fished, over killed....so we can have....but never enough....we have to understand eventually that we need to put back something!!!

Here is where I feel that the service of GOD's will is finally understud...to put back, to restore, to complete...to aid in, to be helpers...YES HELPERS OF THE GARDEN/...Putting back what was taken in disobediance..and doing it sinlessly....this would reverse the curse of death?....perhaps?

Well intent is part of the process...and LOVE OF GOD> Is a commandment!
So We do it because God asked of us to do...and so it is done!

And when it is done...REV 17:17, ACTS 3:21, 10:15, Genesis 1:1, 1:11, 1:12, 2:15, 9:3....in the end they will do what God said in the beginning...

First thing asked, will be the last thing done, and the last thing done will be the first thing asked.

Backwards.
AMEN?

Oh Jesus said.."It is all Good when taken with thanksgiving"...that means all the plants, all the life, all the gifts...Right?...was it not God's will to make Eden?...and the multiple of that ideal would be more of the same no doubt!

.A healthy Garden should beget healthy people!

And healthy people should beget more healthy Gardens!

Healthy people need no hospitals or doctors or pharmacuticles!...for when the will and word of God is done...those ills and pains are removed!

Kinda parallels the paradox we are now facing with Global warnings, prohibition of plants and oppression of our neighbours, to make unrest with the people, who now are painted terrorists, because of the bent laws they have made to stop our handyworks!...those Pot smoking hippies they are classified under as criminals, speaking of peace...Yah put em behind bars, while they sell more guns and bombs to both sides of any conflict...
Yes we need more hospitals because we sin for $atan...and in what God do they really believe in (IN GOD WE TRUST) must be asked!...if they are saying "thankyou for your sacrifices" and "They hate us for our freedoms"...but the taxed hand pays and supports MURDER (WARFARE),,,OPPRESSION,,,AND LIARS,,,AND CRIMINALS!

Oh yes they fear plants, and true freedom from $ATAN, with the idea of sharing everything in peace health and happiness.........Just like they fear God's coming or Christ coming....and so they prohibite certain plants from being sown, so as to prevent the fulfillment of God's word and will....eh?...and they make it profitable the woes and wrath...that God is dishing out!...they say give us more money!...always more money, but never enough!

Mathew 6:24 rings a bell

See?

Last edited by Sir Les; 03-14-2010 at 11:49 AM..
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Old 03-14-2010, 12:00 PM
 
2,958 posts, read 2,080,575 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Les View Post
I have to say Amen to that!!!!

But to be...or not to be...Here it is better to be, and to do what is righteous and proper, and honourable, and in likeness of GOD.,,,TO BECOME GOD'S CHILDREN....EVENTUALLY?

Isn't that our evolutionary path?....and it would seem God is a God of life...and life has a reality...to which it is born into.

Thus EDEN was made for US...and they all are partners in some fashion to that Ideal.... or they are not.

Now God's children Love Life...ALL LIFE is part or in part part of the creation or is the creation...

So Jesus says "Love eachother as I have loved you"...this Goes also for the sower of the seeds, which sustain the eco systems!!!
For it is with them that we have a reality to be in, to witness, and to judge be it good or bad...it all points to something of God, or as I like to proclaim...the opposite or anti God...anti Christ...Anti Eden ideals now being employed in the world for false profits and gains in wealth..and bent luxuries...that are now polluting the Earth with all kinds of vileness!

If we look at the big picture, and hear the words of our scientists, who are examining the eco systems..and see them failing, and being over mined, over fished, over killed....so we can have....but never enough....we have to understand eventually that we need to put back something!!!

Here is where I feel that the service of GOD's will is finally understud...to put back, to restore, to complete...to aid in, to be helpers...YES HELPERS OF THE GARDEN/...Putting back what was taken in disobediance..and doing it sinlessly....this would reverse the curse of death?....perhaps?

Well intent is part of the process...and LOVE OF GOD> Is a commandment!
So We do it because God asked of us to do...and so it is done!

And when it is done...REV 17:17, ACTS 3:21, 10:15, Genesis 1:1, 1:11, 1:12, 2:15, 9:3....in the end they will do what God said in the beginning...

First thing asked, will be the last thing done, and the last thing done will be the first thing asked.

Backwards.
AMEN?

Oh Jesus said.."It is all Good when taken with thanksgiving"...that means all the plants, all the life, all the gifts...Right?...was it not God's will to make Eden?...and the multiple of that ideal would be more of the same no doubt!

.A healthy Garden should beget healthy people!

And healthy people should beget more healthy Gardens!

Healthy people need no hospitals or doctors or pharmacuticles!...for when the will and word of God is done...those ills and pains are removed!

Kinda parallels the paradox we are now facing with Global warnings, prohibition of plants and oppression of our neighbours, to make unrest with the people, who now are painted terrorists, because of the bent laws they have made to stop our handyworks!...those Pot smoking hippies they are classified under as criminals, speaking of peace...Yah put em behind bars, while they sell more guns and bombs to both sides of any conflict...
Yes we need more hospitals because we sin for $atan...and in what God do they really believe in (IN GOD WE TRUST) must be asked!...if they are saying "thankyou for your sacrifices" and "They hate us for our freedoms"...but the taxed hand pays and supports MURDER (WARFARE),,,OPPRESSION,,,AND LIARS,,,AND CRIMINALS!

Oh yes they fear plants, and true freedom from $ATAN, with the idea of sharing everything in peace health and happiness.........Just like they fear God's coming or Christ coming....and so they prohibite certain plants from being sown, so as to prevent the fulfillment of God's word and will....eh?...and they make it profitable the woes and wrath...that God is dishing out!...they say give us more money!...always more money, but never enough!

Mathew 6:24 rings a bell

See?
Jesus said a lot. He said "Narrow Is The Path To Salvation And Few Will Find it"

He said, "Wide Is The Path To Destruction And Many Will Enter Therein"

He told of the many ways one will end up in hell...and he repeated it 70 times in the new testament.

I basically do not like folks who have searched out a few chosen verses and make it sound like all one has to do is sin and sin again and all which is required of them is a little prayer each day to be forgiven. That's not what it says...not even close.

He also said, "Not Everyone Who Says Lord, Lord Will Be Saved."

The other day as I drove through town I fell in behind a new Cadillac Escalade. On the back was the Christian fish sign on one side and on the other a sign which said, "We Have Been Blessed" or something to that end.

I hate to see people wearing their religion on their sleeves like some kind of achievement patch. As a matter of fact it repulses me.

Also people and their public praying irritate me more. Jesus told folks to enter their inner room and close the door when they pray. He said their prayers would be heard when they prayed in secret. It's gotten to the place where at everything from a building dedication to a car race one has to listen to some half educated bible thumper talk to his "invisible man" before things get under way.

Enough already!!
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Old 03-14-2010, 01:24 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Melvin.George View Post
Jesus said a lot. He said "Narrow Is The Path To Salvation And Few Will Find it"

He said, "Wide Is The Path To Destruction And Many Will Enter Therein"

He told of the many ways one will end up in hell...and he repeated it 70 times in the new testament.

I basically do not like folks who have searched out a few chosen verses and make it sound like all one has to do is sin and sin again and all which is required of them is a little prayer each day to be forgiven. That's not what it says...not even close.

He also said, "Not Everyone Who Says Lord, Lord Will Be Saved."

The other day as I drove through town I fell in behind a new Cadillac Escalade. On the back was the Christian fish sign on one side and on the other a sign which said, "We Have Been Blessed" or something to that end.

I hate to see people wearing their religion on their sleeves like some kind of achievement patch. As a matter of fact it repulses me.

Also people and their public praying irritate me more. Jesus told folks to enter their inner room and close the door when they pray. He said their prayers would be heard when they prayed in secret. It's gotten to the place where at everything from a building dedication to a car race one has to listen to some half educated bible thumper talk to his "invisible man" before things get under way.

Enough already!!
Well Then...Let us not forget the words of God...and the reason he made us...which is in the first pages of the Bible....TO TEND AND KEEP THE GARDEN!....and that should be as far as it goes!...But it went further didn't it?...according to Scripture...I can take any of the words put together in a coherant sentance, and use it to further inforce God and his will and word...to US Humans!

Now If you refuse to believe in God...then there is no magical overseer, and giver, and maker.

So with science we have one Planet, and six billion plus people living on it...and we have need of certain requirements...Being..Clean enviroments in which to live, the enviroments have to be based on some principles...eh?
Now we start with what is natural for us...being a system that is perpetual...and Giving...but also needing service..(Eden)...
ANd that system provides us with a dome of ozone, fresh air, clean waters, and sound healthy soils...when and only when it is maintained properly!

There is no getting around this one...unless you want to live in a test tube...with machines cleaning the pollution we produce, and some chemically made proteens and nurishment tied in through a tube..perhaps suits your fancy?.

Is that what you want?

So then when we put down the Engraven Imaged IDol and industrial madness....and we follow the commandments of God, and his laws of the lands, and precepts and covenants upheld....and we put Back some...(tidings) in a certain order under a sinless banner...God helps us.

But if we do not do God's will or word of instruction, under his laws, precepts, and covenants...then God does not help...infact he turns away, and even turns against us....See WTC 9/11 event...and the woes there after, for the humansacrifices being preformed in wars with no merits or truths!

Draw your lines to the earthquakes...the storms of oddity..and Here is where oddyssey meets the paradoxes of reality....and tell me I am wrong?

There for I will not stop, or it will never come to be what it is suppose to be...as God has asked of Us or me...or them..to do something righteous, in that restoration of EDEN!!.

They will turn their weapons into pitch forks and prunning hooks, before the end!

But will it be in time to stop the death of planet Earth?

And the intent of killing it for $$$?

"Woe to them who harm the earth"...I have underlined many times for a good reason!


So let us read the hole truth, and nothing but the hole truth into this eh?

You put in something...You get out something...you get out something , you put in something...

Jesus said..."I came to serve and be served"....

And we all have to do service in the Garden, sinlessly to gain forgiveness from God!

"DO NO MORE SIN AND BE FORGIVEN"...was also said By Jesus to the prostitute...

But he said nothing to the sower of seeds...other than, "It is all Good when taken with thanksgiving"...so no contrabann...it is made clean with Jesus, and God said it plainly in GENESIS...IT IS ALL GOOD!!..AND GOD BLESSED IT ....

Smile.
If you wanna know God...walk in his shoes...and make that Garden...with all seeds....and put marijuana back in there with the rest.....nothing omitted nothing removed,,,nothing changed...restoration starts with doing!

Acts 3:21...and do not profane what God has made clean and called Good, and has Given us to make more with!

Why enough already?...I have just started,,,,and it is so simple a child could do it...sow a seed sinlessly in the soil...till, sow, and grow a better world.

Now what is wrong that you take offense to such a simplistic ideal of benefit to all life?

How can God feed the Birds with out seeds?
and certain seeds have certain properies...which help keep them healthy...which in turn help keepo the whole healthy ...indirectly speaking...if we remove or omit one plant we bring rise to sickness in the system through not giving that seed to them....and then the sickness spreads through the food chain...because the birds **** everywhere!....

See the lines that tied this idea together?

Intent...for the greator good of all life...is best to obey the obvious!

Sir Les

Last edited by Sir Les; 03-14-2010 at 01:45 PM..
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