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Old 03-28-2010, 06:18 PM
 
1,243 posts, read 1,315,216 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ovcatto View Post
Buddhism is one of the most ethical philosophies on the planet
Getting others to work for one does not strike everyone as ethical. Taking small boys from their homes does not strike everyone as ethical.

Quote:
In his first sermon, given in the 6th Century BCE, encapsulates the morality of the 10 Commandments
So could have been inspired by them.
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Old 03-28-2010, 06:37 PM
 
31,385 posts, read 31,046,755 times
Reputation: 14878
Quote:
Originally Posted by shibata View Post
Getting others to work for one does not strike everyone as ethical.
"Getting others to work for one does not strike everyone as ethical"

Moderator cut: inappropriate words

Quote:
Taking small boys from their homes does not strike everyone as ethical.
Boarding school isn't ethical?

Quote:
So could have been inspired by them.
Could have? Wishful thinking.

Last edited by Miss Blue; 03-28-2010 at 08:43 PM.. Reason: WTF/inapprioriate for these forums
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Old 03-28-2010, 07:43 PM
 
Location: 30-40N 90-100W
13,856 posts, read 22,232,709 times
Reputation: 6657
Quote:
Originally Posted by ovcatto View Post
Just curious.
Love your enemy and don't kill disabled infants. At least you pretty much never see those outside Christian cultures.

The idea of "knowing your enemy" can be found in Sun Tzu and that knowledge can translate to empathy or respect after a fashion. However outside of Christianity the idea of outright loving your enemy, although possibly known, was generally rejected as unjust. (I think the Moists of ancient China believed in universal love, but their movement died off. Possibly some Hindu movements had love of enemies) From most non-Christian perspectives if you love both good people and bad people you are encouraging moral indifference. And this is even true of religions similar to Christianity. Rabbi Boteach had an article where he clearly stated the idea of loving or praying for your enemies makes no sense in Judaism. However from the Christian perspective love can be redemptive and transformative. It's also a recognition that even "bad people" have a shared humanity and some innate goodness.

From a practical/rational perspective a newborn may not be fully sentient/sapient and if they're disabled they will likely cost more than they produce. So aborting the disabled in the womb or poisoning them soon after birth is in a way cost-effective and logical. Most pre-Christian societies also practiced infanticide for a variety of reasons. However as someone who was a disabled baby I'm glad we don't think like this.
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Old 03-28-2010, 08:34 PM
 
Location: Kentucky
1,090 posts, read 1,952,375 times
Reputation: 607
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas R. View Post
Love your enemy and don't kill disabled infants. At least you pretty much never see those outside Christian cultures.
The hell? Are you seriously stating that you believe most, possibly all, non-Christians advocate infanticide?
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Old 03-28-2010, 09:23 PM
 
3,614 posts, read 2,950,599 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spotted1 View Post
The hell? Are you seriously stating that you believe most, possibly all, non-Christians advocate infanticide?
I think he's implying that Christians (or at least "true" Christians, NTS fallacy) don't practice abortion, despite the greatest number of abortions in the United States happening *gasp* in the Bible Belt.
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Old 03-28-2010, 09:47 PM
 
Location: 30-40N 90-100W
13,856 posts, read 22,232,709 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spotted1 View Post
The hell? Are you seriously stating that you believe most, possibly all, non-Christians advocate infanticide?
No. I'm saying that by reason, or nature, alone you can't rule against all infanticide and that in most/all pre-Christian societies infanticide was more accepted. I can source that.

Infanticide: Comparative and ... - Google Books

Images of women in antiquity - Google Books

Routledge International Encyclopedia ... - Google Books

Taking Life: Humans, by Peter Singer

Although on reflection Judaism likely deserves more credit for starting the ball rolling against infanticide. I give Christianity more credit because Judaism's opposition to infanticide was in a sense a "tribal" view and did not lead to the decline of the practice elsewhere.

When children became people: the ... - Google Books

Infanticide certainly occurred among Christians, and Christians may well have exaggerated how widespread it was in other cultures, but Christianity was relatively unusual in how strongly and thoroughly it rejected infanticide. The idea that the infant is a person with rights is not necessarily inevitable or even all that scientifically valid. (Newborns may not be much more aware than chimps, but the law will generally deem killing an infant a greater crime)

Now the standard response I remember when I bring this up is to be claim I'm lying or give a non-sequitir about Christians who killed kids in a war. Or pretend that I'm an Evangelical Protestant for some unknown reason. (Most of world's Christians are not Evangelical Protestants. Also several "Bible Belt" states have low rates of abortion anyway, see source at end) None of these really deals with the actual facts of history I can source.

Moderator cut: link removed, linking to competitor sites is not allowed

Last edited by Yac; 03-30-2010 at 07:49 AM..
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Old 03-29-2010, 04:50 AM
 
Location: Somewhere on Earth
1,052 posts, read 1,410,039 times
Reputation: 711
Quote:
Originally Posted by shibata View Post
Why does this post have no arrow back to the post it quotes from?
Page 11 of this thread

I'm kinda expecting it to "magically disappear" before you are able to find it though
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Old 03-29-2010, 05:21 AM
 
1,243 posts, read 1,315,216 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Lune View Post
Page 11 of this thread

I'm kinda expecting it to "magically disappear" before you are able to find it though
Thought so.

I wonder if anyone will respond to it in context.
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Old 03-29-2010, 06:26 AM
 
5,463 posts, read 5,781,296 times
Reputation: 1803
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas R. View Post
No. I'm saying that by reason, or nature, alone you can't rule against all infanticide and that in most/all pre-Christian societies infanticide was more accepted.

I'm intrigued by a Christian claiming that lack of infanticide is a benefit of Christianity when you can't make it through two chapters of the Bible without reading about God ordering this very thing. Either there's some inherent blind spot going on here or the absolute morality of Christianity is actually anything but.
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Old 03-29-2010, 06:28 AM
 
5,463 posts, read 5,781,296 times
Reputation: 1803
Quote:
Originally Posted by shibata View Post
That's anti-Christian.
Quote:
Originally Posted by shibata View Post
Christians don't condemn anything.
I take this to mean you're admitting you're not a Christian.
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