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Old 04-07-2010, 09:58 AM
 
Location: Somewhere out there
9,616 posts, read 11,071,718 times
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Thx, ovcatto, for redirecting this wandering thread. I looked at the philosophy wars going on with GldnRl & his detractors. Good defensive posturing, GR, but hey; what's it got to do with.... And then back at the OP's question, and then back at those posts, and then back at the OP...

Talk about confusing, but then, I'm perhaps just too simple-minded to get the drift, so to speak. And I am on some painkillers right now, so that could also make me a blithering dolt....

Anyhow, catto, your questions, as follows, are very germane, IMHO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ovcatto View Post
I'm confused, the universe can't start from nothing, although there was nothing until god created it, but that is supposed to be starting with nothing to create something from nothing.

Now if that sentence make no sense, then you understand why I am having a problem.
Seems as though on the one hand religion indeed does have The Answer, but that particular Answer also requires a selective application of rationale and logic. As in:
"Science says you can't get something from nothing, Laws of Thermodynamics and all, etc., etc. So where did the universe come from, huh, you silly scientists?"
But all that logical analysis goes completely by the wayside when it might then be applied to God's initial creation. Why? Well because "it doesn't fit" that fairy tale story, silly!

So to answer your question, catto, just remember: God can do it all, any way he wants to. Whatever the congregation wants Him to do.

There. No more confusion, eh?
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Old 04-07-2010, 10:09 AM
 
Location: Valencia, Spain
13,892 posts, read 9,665,267 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GldnRule View Post
I DID answer it Dude...in no uncertain terms.
Hardly! Just answer the questions yes or no.



Quote:
Now answer MY question...Why do you care what I think/believe individually and personally...rather than just generally? What's up with that?[
Well you answered that yourself when you said...

".....we really don't have any REAL concern for each other beyond what we write in our posts"
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Old 04-07-2010, 11:07 AM
 
6,638 posts, read 3,864,148 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafius View Post
Hardly! Just answer the questions yes or no.
Sorry Rafius, if you could read what I wrote...and rewrote...and can't glean the answer to your questions from that...I'll have to politely decline further debate with you. I thought you could analyze and gather information from answers more involved than "Yes" and "No"...evidently I was mistaken. Ciao!

Take care...all the best.
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Old 04-07-2010, 11:49 AM
 
Location: Valencia, Spain
13,892 posts, read 9,665,267 times
Reputation: 2401
Quote:
Originally Posted by GldnRule View Post
I thought you could analyze and gather information from answers more involved than "Yes" and "No"...evidently I was mistaken.
Yes you were. I'm a bit dim you see so a yes or no answer to the questions really would be appreciated.
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Old 04-08-2010, 07:48 AM
 
5,463 posts, read 5,786,087 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GldnRule View Post
Nah, the Christians say...If a man steals from you...don't hold him accountable...MOF, GIVE him MORE of your stuff! Return evil for evil to no one. Don't avenge yourself or others. Bless your enemy. And if I see someone doing something wrong, and I don't point it out to them, I'm held accountable for their transgression. THAT'S NOT ME DUDE! So I don't "cut it" as a "Christian". It takes a whole lot more than just acknowledging God and J.C. Or didn't anyone ever hip you to that?
So you are a Christian which doesn't agree with every moral proscription in the Bible - just like every other Christian who ever existed.

Quote:
Back to the THREAD...The Atheists say matter in the universe always was, or appeared from nothing, and organized itself through chance and time to what we have now.
Or more likely, they don't say any of these things because we really don't know the origin of the universe prior to the Big Bang.

Quote:
The Believers (most of them) say the matter was created from nothing and compelled to be organized by a "God" that always was. Neither can be sure. But the latter sure does sound like a more plausible proposition...to me anyway.
How is it probably happened through unknown magic I can't possibly ever understand even a proposition about knowledge at all? Seems like an admission that the people who say "I don't know" are pretty close to the truth, in my opinion.

Quote:
Only 1 out of 10 on the planet take the former view...and from that standpoint...the Court of Overwhelming Consensus picks the latter.
If you're not a Christian or Muslim, why are you appealing to raw numbers to prove which religion is the correct one? Heck, if we take your "I'm a religion of 1" at face value you're massively outnumbered by even the smallest organized religions and yet you'd have us believe that you actually think numbers are a convincing argument. Either you're being dishonest or hypocritical here, and neither option is particularly flattering.

Quote:
"Prove absolutely" how "something came from nothing" otherwise, and I'll fore-go the "consensus pick" for your proof. Or gain the consensus...good luck with that.
Why is the only alternative to a magical non-explanation absolute proof? It seems that even a vague natural explanation would be better than POOF, god did it! No need to pretend that the "explanation" given by religions has set the bar any higher than that.
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Old 04-08-2010, 11:30 AM
 
37,546 posts, read 25,261,889 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafius View Post
Yes you were. I'm a bit dim you see so a yes or no answer to the questions really would be appreciated.
In my experience . . whenever anyone insists upon a yes or no answer (like a lawyer in cross-examination) . . . they are hiding something and up to no good. It has never failed to be true. So fess up, Rafius . . . what are you hiding or up-to? You are certainly not being genuine with your personally intrusive cross-examinations. We are supposed to refrain from such personal assaults on each other according to the TOS.
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Old 04-08-2010, 11:40 AM
 
Location: Valencia, Spain
13,892 posts, read 9,665,267 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
In my experience . . whenever anyone insists upon a yes or no answer (like a lawyer in cross-examination) . . . they are hiding something and up to no good. It has never failed to be true. So fess up, Rafius . . . what are you hiding or up-to? You are certainly not being genuine with your personally intrusive cross-examinations. We are supposed to refrain from such personal assaults on each other according to the TOS.
I'm just asking for a yes no answer to the question so that we can ascertain whether or not CldnRule speaks with fork tongue when he says that he isn't religious.
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Old 04-08-2010, 11:41 AM
 
37,546 posts, read 25,261,889 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KCfromNC View Post
Or more likely, they don't say any of these things because we really don't know the origin of the universe prior to the Big Bang.
How is it probably happened through unknown magic I can't possibly ever understand even a proposition about knowledge at all? Seems like an admission that the people who say "I don't know" are pretty close to the truth, in my opinion.
Who are these people . . . certainly not atheists . . . because they go way beyond "I don't know" to "it can't be that it is God's design" . . . it's just "natural." Perhaps as an advocate of the "don't know" crowd . . . you will explain HOW you get from "We don't know" to "it is just natural" in preference to "it is just God's design?"
Quote:
If you're not a Christian or Muslim, why are you appealing to raw numbers to prove which religion is the correct one? Heck, if we take your "I'm a religion of 1" at face value you're massively outnumbered by even the smallest organized religions and yet you'd have us believe that you actually think numbers are a convincing argument. Either you're being dishonest or hypocritical here, and neither option is particularly flattering.
Why is it that all you atheists seem to be capable of is attacking the advocates for theism . . . instead of arguing the merits of your position or refuting their positions?
Quote:
Why is the only alternative to a magical non-explanation absolute proof? It seems that even a vague natural explanation would be better than POOF, god did it!
Again with the misrepresenting of the theist position as "Poof . . . God did it" when your purported vague "natural" explanation is no more than "Poof . . Nature did it."
Quote:
No need to pretend that the "explanation" given by religions has set the bar any higher than that.
No need to pretend that the explanation given by atheism has set the bar any higher than that.
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Old 04-08-2010, 11:45 AM
 
37,546 posts, read 25,261,889 times
Reputation: 5857
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafius View Post
I'm just asking for a yes no answer to the question so that we can ascertain whether or not CldnRule speaks with fork tongue when he says that he isn't religious.
And this ad hominem information would assist you in defending your position . . . HOW?
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Old 04-08-2010, 12:36 PM
 
Location: Valencia, Spain
13,892 posts, read 9,665,267 times
Reputation: 2401
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
And this ad hominem information would assist you in defending your position . . . HOW?
I'll let you know if he answers. I mean, I wouldn't want to expose my sneaky, atheist underhand trick before I'm able to put the boot in would I?
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