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Old 03-31-2010, 08:41 PM
 
3,614 posts, read 2,951,508 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GldnRule View Post
What is the problem that Einstein believed in Jesus Christ?
Einstein didn't believe in Jesus Christ. He wasn't Christian.

Quote:
...including what was said about Christ, and what Christ said about himself...and A.E. stated as such...as I quoted. I'm sure you can find things written about him and other things he said that don't include that.
Einstein's religious beliefs are pretty well known, and they are not Christian. He was a pantheist.


Quote:
You claim I make "absurd appeals to authority"...of course I appeal to authorithy...
The fact that Einstein's religious belief somehow has something to do with the origins of the universe is why it is an appeal to authority. He is an authority on physics, but I don't see what his religion has to do with physics.

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so do all the athiests...
We do?

Quote:
Unless you can show me proof of "no God" from "facts" and "evidence" you came up with all on you own, what else is it you are basing your arguments on?
The anthropomorphic creator entity that lives in the sky (space\outside space\outside universe, depending on what time you're from) that somehow mingles in the lives of humans is definitely false. What authority am I appealing to in order to make that claim?

Quote:
I stated...90% of the CURRENT world population believes in a God...whatever they perceive it/him/her to be.
The type of higher power they believe in very much matters to those who believe in it. You wouldn't be happy if I kept saying that you believed in the Shiva.

Quote:
I wasn't talking about what people USED TO believe when the majority of the populace was barely literate. If it's not true, at over 6 billion people it's the biggest scam/con ever pulled off by unthinkable multiples.
The primary factor in determining religious belief is the upbringing a child receives. Higher religiousity is directly associated with the frequency of church attendance. Children and parents that go to church more frequently are likewise more religious. Child are indoctrinated into their religions without their consent. The lucky few escape it.

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I wasn't calling you stupid Konraden...any more than you were calling me stupid when you wrote, "theism is the manifestation of ignorance, you would understand why there is so much theism."
That's a factual claim. Ancient people all throughout history did not have nearly the knowledge we have today in modern times. They were ignorant. The theistic entities they invented were there to explain the phenomenon they didn't know.

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...or were you? But I'll tell ya what, come to Upstate N.Y. any Friday night and you can join us for "poker night". I'll introduce to the two guys in my account of that hand of 7 card stud. But I warn you, if you aren't a good player it could be rather expensive.

All the best to all.
No interest, I'm not very good at poker.
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Old 03-31-2010, 09:05 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
30,037 posts, read 30,676,322 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GldnRule View Post
You want a "fact"...try this one:::I just checked it out and 90% of the WORLDS population believes in a God. 9 OUT OF 10!! When atheist viewpoints get some "mojo" I will give it some credence. 1 for 10 is about as poor a showing as you can get. Fortunately you aren't in a casino, or owners of sports teams because you'd be scratchin. That's a rout! I have no idea how the theistic platform can be deemed weak when it is so well supported. It's the atheist position that has no "juice". Oh yeah, a total fabrication is going to "snow" 90% of the worlds population in 2010.

The only way to see the issue on fair ground...is to make the world the congress relative to the matter------IS THERE A GOD? Roll Call!!--- The vote has been taken and the AYEs have it by a margin of 10 to 1. BANG-BANG-BANG.......SO RULED. There IS a God.

I'm curious to know where you found that 90% figure, because according to this Gallup poll those numbers are way too high.



http://www.gallup-international.com/ContentFiles/millennium15.asp (broken link)
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Old 03-31-2010, 09:33 PM
 
6,637 posts, read 3,860,195 times
Reputation: 654
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
I'm curious to know where you found that 90% figure, because according to this Gallup poll those numbers are way too high.
I Googled: "Percentage of the world population that believes in a god." 90% is what was stated in the majority of the sites on the first couple of pages...so that's what I stated. Check it out. Ahhhh, see how pesky those "facts" you get are? Maybe those sites aren't true. Maybe its more...maybe it's less. I will go as far as to say I'm sure of this though...In the "Congress of Everyone in the World", a roll call vote would pass, "Is there a God?" by a supermajority. The sites I saw said it would be 95% in the U.S. WOW!...how much more of an overwhelming consensus can you get?
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Old 03-31-2010, 10:11 PM
 
6,637 posts, read 3,860,195 times
Reputation: 654
Default Creator God

Quote:
Originally Posted by Konraden View Post
Einstein didn't believe in Jesus Christ. He wasn't Christian....Einstein's religious beliefs are pretty well known, and they are not Christian. He was a pantheist.
Konraden I'm not much for links, but check this out:
ALBERT [E = MC2] EINSTEIN’S GOD | Arco Carib

I agree it's a religious based site so "the spin" leans that way, but I found it very interesting. I know why I put so much credence in that Einstein believed in a God--Everyone has someone in each field of endeavor that they place in the "#1 Highest Regard" position. In the field of "ability to use ones mind to figure out how things are/were" he's my all time favorite. Like admiring Warren Buffett in the field of investing.

All the best.
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Old 03-31-2010, 10:24 PM
 
Location: Richland, Washington
4,070 posts, read 4,965,643 times
Reputation: 2479
Quote:
Originally Posted by GldnRule View Post
I Googled: "Percentage of the world population that believes in a god." 90% is what was stated in the majority of the sites on the first couple of pages...so that's what I stated. Check it out. Ahhhh, see how pesky those "facts" you get are? Maybe those sites aren't true. Maybe its more...maybe it's less. I will go as far as to say I'm sure of this though...In the "Congress of Everyone in the World", a roll call vote would pass, "Is there a God?" by a supermajority. The sites I saw said it would be 95% in the U.S. WOW!...how much more of an overwhelming consensus can you get?
I don't understand why you equate truth to numbers. Truth is based on independently testable verifiable facts, not how many people believe it is true. There is no empirically verified evidence for god. It follows that it would be irrational to postulate it as true. Another case in point, the majority of Americans believe in ID/creationism. This doesn't make Irrational Design true though. All the evidence points toward evolution by natural selection.
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Old 03-31-2010, 10:32 PM
 
37,496 posts, read 25,232,088 times
Reputation: 5854
Quote:
Originally Posted by agnostic soldier View Post
All the evidence points toward evolution by natural selection.
Don't you guys ever tire of using this non-explanation of "natural" as if it is a scientific explanation? How is it any more scientific than evolution by designed selection? You haven't a clue what or why "natural" or "nature" actually is . . . since it "Just is" . . . no different than God "just is" . . . except for the name.
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Old 03-31-2010, 10:49 PM
 
Location: Somewhere out there
9,616 posts, read 11,064,818 times
Reputation: 3717
Default Einstein: the truth.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GldnRule View Post
I Googled: "Percentage of the world population that believes in a god." 90% is what was stated in the majority of the sites on the first couple of pages...so that's what I stated. Check it out. Ahhhh, see how pesky those "facts" you get are?
The first link that mentioned that highly dubious figure, 90%, was a site about supermodels. Hmmm...

Here's a phrase you should memorize: "Consider The Source".

You can pretty much find support for anything you'd like to believe on the web, including that rabid chipmunks will take over the world tomorrow afternoon. Really! "The National Enquirer", but hey; it's on the web!

I'd suggest you quote only credible sources, and don't just glom onto the first numbers that seem to support your argument. Folks might just check it up, and then you'll be in trouble. We have a few others on these fora who do that, and boy, do they have a bad "rep" now!
Maybe those sites aren't true. Maybe its more...maybe it's less. I will go as far as to say I'm sure of this though...In the "Congress of Everyone in the World", a roll call vote would pass, "Is there a God?" by a supermajority. The sites I saw said it would be 95% in the U.S. WOW!...how much more of an overwhelming consensus can you get?
But even then I'd say: So what? Is that your personal check for credibility? That and only that? How's about the facts, or new information that comes to light? How about that a whole lot of the world's inhabitants were forced to attend church, or worse, Sunday School, because they were too young, and simply couldn't speak out against such blatant brainwashing?

The prolific belief in a God does not in any way validate it, now does it? Remember when all the world thought it was flat, and would publicly stone you if you openly disagreed?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GldnRule View Post
Konraden I'm not much for links, but check this out:
ALBERT [E = MC2] EINSTEIN’S GOD | Arco Carib

I agree it's a religious based site so "the spin" leans that way, but I found it very interesting. I know why I put so much credence in that Einstein believed in a God--Everyone h"as someone in each field of endeavor that they place in the "#1 Highest Regard" position. In the field of "ability to use ones mind to figure out how things are/were" he's my all time favorite. Like admiring Warren Buffett in the field of investing.

All the best.
But... Einstein absolutely did not believe in the Abrahamic God. He was curious about the possibilities of gods or forces, but did not give his seal of approval to the Christian version. He was too smart for that.

Some supporting quotes:

"Walter Isaacson in an April 2007 article in Time, wrote that Einstein came to reject the concept "of a personal God who intercedes in the daily workings of the world." Nevertheless, Einstein retained "a profound faith in, and reverence for, the harmony and beauty of what he called the mind of God as it was expressed in the creation of the universe and its laws."

or this...

"Try and penetrate with our limited means the secrets of nature and you will find that, behind all the discernible laws and connections, there remains something subtle, intangible and inexplicable. Veneration for this force beyond anything that we can comprehend is my religion. To that extent I am, in fact, religious."

or...

“It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it.”


Albert Einstein, in a letter March 24, 1954; from Albert Einstein the Human Side, Helen Dukas and Banesh Hoffman, eds., Princeton, New Jersey: Princeton University Press, 1981, p. 43.

or...

“As the first way out there was religion, which is implanted into every child by way of the traditional education-machine. Thus I came to a deep religiousness, which, however, reached an abrupt end at the age of twelve. Through the reading of popular scientific books I soon reached the conviction that much in the stories of the Bible could not be true. The consequence was a positively fanatic orgy of freethinking coupled with the impression that youth is intentionally being deceived by the state through lies".

Still want to assert that Einstein was religious? And even if he was [which he wasn't...], what would that prove, pray tell? That because a smart man in a specific arena of math & physics believes in it, thus we all should? You'll always be able to count off a few hundred scientists who believe in your god, but I will then come back with lists of millions of scientists, engineers, physicists, astroscientists, medical doctors, etc. who absolutely do not. With literally millions more graduating each year globally who hold that same conviction.

Religion is dying with education but growing with illiterate populations. Wonderful! But by majority vote, your side loses badly when it comes to scholarly thinkers and their beliefs. Sorry.

Are you familiar with the term "sheeple", GldnRl? It's an observable phenom in most of mankind, but it's not such a popular motivation with critical thinkers, scientists or those who eluded forced attendance at childhood religious indoctrinations. Personally, I'd rather not be considered to be a part of that bleating mentality myself. For others though, it apparently provides warmth and comfort. BBaaaa....aaaaaahhhh!
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Old 03-31-2010, 10:55 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
30,037 posts, read 30,676,322 times
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I'm afraid that there will always be far more sheep (followers) than the are shepherds (leaders). I find that a sad statement about humanity in general.
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Old 03-31-2010, 11:12 PM
 
Location: Valencia, Spain
13,854 posts, read 9,651,582 times
Reputation: 2393
Quote:
Originally Posted by Konraden View Post
Ad populum. 90% of the world believes in a higher power of some kind, ranging everywhere from Yahweh, Allah, Brahman, Shiva, Krishna, and just billions of people worshiping various traditional or eastern theism. Yahweh is actually just 33% of the population: the largest religion, but still in the minority. 66% reject God.
Quote:
Originally Posted by agnostic soldier View Post
Anyone whose never heard of the ad populem logical fallacy should read your post. The vast majority of the world's population once believed the sun revolved around the earth. The fact that most people believe something doesn't make it true.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Konraden View Post
The primary factor in determining religious belief is the upbringing a child receives. Higher religiousity is directly associated with the frequency of church attendance. Children and parents that go to church more frequently are likewise more religious. Child are indoctrinated into their religions without their consent.
Quote:
Originally Posted by agnostic soldier View Post
I don't understand why you equate truth to numbers. Truth is based on independently testable verifiable facts, not how many people believe it is true.
You're wasting your time guys. I have told him all this numerous times. He'll just ignore it and re-post his Appeal to Authority later on.
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Old 03-31-2010, 11:13 PM
 
3,614 posts, read 2,951,508 times
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Thank you, rifleman, for digging up those quotes.
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