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Old 04-15-2010, 03:35 AM
 
1,838 posts, read 1,931,334 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
You want to believe all that, fine with me, but every piece of technology we have today was first imagined, then created by people...Your god had nothing whatever to do with it...You can keep your supernatural stories, I'll stick with reality, thanks.
all the element's used to create anything comes from the earth-so no scientists only manipulated that energy and didnt create it-God did-and with all the amazing design in life-how can you say it had no planner-and like you said everything that's crreated was first imagined then created so why would it be different for all that is in existence and gldnrle made a better example-he has a good point
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Old 04-15-2010, 06:16 AM
 
5,463 posts, read 5,783,582 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GldnRule View Post
I guess we just see "creating" differently. I don't call taking existing matter and energy and manipulating it in a way that it acts to serve some function as "creating".
To me "creating" requires the production of the base elemental matter and energy where it did not exist previously. And it is REALITY that man has NEVER done that.
We produce "base elemental matter" all the time. What do you think nuclear reactors do?

Quote:
"Inventing" and "Creating" are two different things. Man is only capable of the former...and has achieved it both with and without the assistance of information gained through "science".
Sigh. Again you resort to redefining words in order to ignore truths that are uncomfortable to your faith.
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Old 04-15-2010, 06:23 AM
 
18 posts, read 19,501 times
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Originally Posted by agnostic soldier View Post
Kent Hovind is a joke. He provided nothing but lies and misinformation to 'support' his claims. Evolution by natural selection is a fact of life. Also, you're siting an evangelical creationist website. The people running the site are preposturously biased on the matter.

Evolution is a religion. Christians believe 'In the beginning God...'... athiests believe ' In the beginning dirt...' They both take faith to believe, unless you were around 10,000- or 10 billion trillion zillion years ago to dispute this. And since natural selection is a fact of life, then i believe naturally you won't be selected cause only the strong (and smarter) survive right?...and you can quote me on this to your monkey's uncle...lol
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Old 04-15-2010, 06:34 AM
 
Location: Minnesota
1,489 posts, read 1,273,343 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Salt & Light View Post
Because when we look around we see order, which suggests design, which suggests a Creator. It actually gets a bit more detailed than this and there are other reasons but this should be enough to get those who are absolutely sure there is no higher power agitated.

My question remains the same. Why do Atheist, those who are certain there is no God, spend so much time and energy focused on something they “don’t believe in”?
This is a very easy question to answer with a rather obvious answer. When my kids were young they sometimes called me into their bedroom since they were scared of the "boogyman" or someone hiding under their bed etc... I'd spend several minutes talking about the "boogeyman" and assuring them that they were safe and the "boogeyman" wasn't going to get them etc....

So, do I believe in the "boogeyman" No, I don't. Why did I spend time talking about an entity I didn't believe in ? Well it was because someone else did believe in him and my job as a parent was to engage my child in conversation to assure then that they would be OK.

So, If my adult neighbor has a phobia about giant ants attacking him when he exits his house and I on occasion get drawn into a conversation about giant ants with him....does this prove that I think giant ants exist ? Not in the least. We're all drawn into conversations from time to time at the level of the "lowers common denominator" It happens with children regarding the tooth fairey, santa clause, the easter bunny and yes, with adults many times about religious concepts too.

Is this concept all that hard to understand ? Seems obvious to me anyway.
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Old 04-15-2010, 06:38 AM
 
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Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
No. science is not nearly as simple as you say it is. Without science our life spans would be cut in half, and what we think of today as minor diseases would still be fatal. You and I wouldn't be communicating, there would be no electrical power, so no lights, appliances, phones or radios, no transportation other than horses or camels...We would still be hunter gatherers, that is if we had survived at all...Science not only studies a watch, but creates it.

It amazes me how someone who regularly uses many of the things science has given us can just dismiss it as though it didn't exist.

Getting back to the topic.....Do you think the universe came from nothing?
It amazes me how you still can't see that science can't create anything, and man couldn't either unless knowledge was first given to him. Scientific creations only proves man has some intelligence of observation and creativity. The universe proves man is not as intelligent as he would like to think, as he never fashioned it nor could he. No, the universe did not come from nothing... it came from the mind of a God you cannot yet see nor understand because you are spiritually discerning.
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Old 04-15-2010, 06:53 AM
 
18 posts, read 19,501 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
You want to believe all that, fine with me, but every piece of technology we have today was first imagined, then created by people...Your god had nothing whatever to do with it...You can keep your supernatural stories, I'll stick with reality, thanks.
Reality is, man didn't create himself, nor did the universe. Speak of the progression all you want. I'm speaking of the origin. Science states matter cannot be destroyed but displaced, yet there is a lot of matter (except in your head) in the universe... so where did it all come from Einstein?
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Old 04-15-2010, 07:26 AM
 
6,637 posts, read 3,860,195 times
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Originally Posted by KCfromNC View Post
We produce "base elemental matter" all the time. What do you think nuclear reactors do?
Sigh. Again you resort to redefining words in order to ignore truths that are uncomfortable to your faith.
You think I'm doing what you say I'm doing because you are working off your own frame of reference, and assume everyone acts like you. You claim "word redefinition" and such, just so you can pretend not to understand what I said...to ignore truths that YOU are uncomfortable with.

The reactor is just something fashioned of existing materials...and does nothing but use existing matter, energy, and functions using existing processes (fission), to manipulate existing matter and energy in a way we may find potentially useful. Putting the reactor up isn't truly creating anything ...just jockeying existing materials and energy around so it could be used to perform some function.

"Creation" would be starting with the area the reactor is in, and make an perfect vacuum (well, as perfect as it gets-like deep space) of that area...then, without bringing in any EXISTING matter or energy---Come up with the reactor. THAT'S "creating". I do know an entity that could pull that off...but you don't know Him...though you will someday.
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Old 04-15-2010, 07:37 AM
 
1,838 posts, read 1,931,334 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KCfromNC View Post
We produce "base elemental matter" all the time. What do you think nuclear reactors do?



Sigh. Again you resort to redefining words in order to ignore truths that are uncomfortable to your faith.
thats a great example the one thing man has created is one of the things destroying the planet that nots creation thats destruction same goes with most technology-and i bet that base elemental matter is only formed from some other existing energy ......destruction not creation-
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Old 04-15-2010, 07:50 AM
 
1,838 posts, read 1,931,334 times
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matter is God's external energy and at the same time the whole universe exists inside Him and at the same time He is seperated from the energy and at the same time He can enter it-and create whatever He likes from it-its His and He is in control of every molecule and atom-but i think our atheist freinds are a little envious that their so beloved scientists put toghether cant match even a miniscuel of this creator's greatness-no need to be jelous we all need Him--the material universe is an energy and God is the energetic-in other word's the energy comes from Him.
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Old 04-15-2010, 09:01 AM
 
Location: Richland, Washington
4,070 posts, read 4,966,246 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by methodmatriarch View Post
Evolution is a religion. Christians believe 'In the beginning God...'... athiests believe ' In the beginning dirt...' They both take faith to believe, unless you were around 10,000- or 10 billion trillion zillion years ago to dispute this. And since natural selection is a fact of life, then i believe naturally you won't be selected cause only the strong (and smarter) survive right?...and you can quote me on this to your monkey's uncle...lol
This just shows your complete ignorance of evolution. For one, evolution is not a religion, yet another one of creationist blatant lies. Evolution is based on facts and evidence. It doesn't matter if you believe it was divinely directed, evolution by natural selection is a fact of life. Also, atheism doesn't say in the beginning there was dirt, it says we don't know. Also, you know nothing of natural selection. Natural selection is about how the genes that benefit a species survive and the genes that negatively affect the species die off. Also, your insinuation that I'm stupid just shoows the usual creationist ad hominem argument, which just proves you know you're wrong. Also, the thread topic is about how atheism/science don't say we came from nothing, despite what creationists like to believe. Here's a thread that discusses evolution/design:

http://www.city-data.com/forum/relig...-argument.html
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