U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 03-27-2010, 10:33 AM
 
4,989 posts, read 7,767,967 times
Reputation: 2869

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by mmm...mabeynot View Post
Logic Hmmm...

There was no time.
There was no space.

No time for something to happen...no place for something to happen.

And then the universe expanded from a singularity.

The universe "created" space.
The universe "created" time.

What is it now about 13 3/4 billion years ago? From where we are in now the universe, since everything is relative.
Uranium decays into lead in a little over 3 billion years?

If we were closer to where the event happened the universe wouldn't be so old would it?

Is it older for something further away from where the "event happened?
I think your logic has holes in it.
I'm trying to understand your view. Are you saying that you think there was nothing before the universe, then for no apparant reason the universe suddenly sprung from a singularity and in the process the universe created space and time? Or are you saying that such a description doesn't make any sense and is therefore illogical?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 03-27-2010, 10:46 AM
 
Location: Bradenton, Florida
100 posts, read 125,219 times
Reputation: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by agnostic soldier View Post
You really do believe in Zeus, you just don't understand so you try and make us believe you don't believe in Zeus.
Zeus was the Priest of Jupiter was he not?

Acts 14:13

Then the priest of Jupiter, which was before their city, brought oxen and garlands unto the gates, and would have done sacrifice with the people.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-27-2010, 10:48 AM
 
Location: Bradenton, Florida
100 posts, read 125,219 times
Reputation: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by agnostic soldier View Post
Why is it so difficult for you to understand that neither atheism nor science claims the universe came from nothing? Your whole critique is a strawman. Atheism/science say we don't currently know the answer because there is no evidence that explains how it did happen.
If you truly didn't believe in God you wouldn't be here taping at a keyboard to argue the point.
You'd be off picking daisies or something elsewhere laughing at all of the believers!

Pssst, there is evidence! You just refuse it as so
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-27-2010, 11:02 AM
 
Location: Richland, Washington
4,070 posts, read 4,967,252 times
Reputation: 2479
Quote:
Originally Posted by teagal View Post
If you truly didn't believe in God you wouldn't be here taping at a keyboard to argue the point.
You'd be off picking daisies or something elsewhere laughing at all of the believers!

Pssst, there is evidence! You just refuse it as so
I am the one true god. Psst, there is evidence that I am! You just refuse it as so. Bow before me ye worthless sinner and give me 10% of your money.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-27-2010, 11:03 AM
 
Location: Richland, Washington
4,070 posts, read 4,967,252 times
Reputation: 2479
Quote:
Originally Posted by teagal View Post
Zeus was the Priest of Jupiter was he not?

Acts 14:13

Then the priest of Jupiter, which was before their city, brought oxen and garlands unto the gates, and would have done sacrifice with the people.
Are you serious? Zeus was a god in greek mythology. Maybe you should spend some time learning.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-27-2010, 12:09 PM
 
3,614 posts, read 2,952,585 times
Reputation: 909
Quote:
Originally Posted by agnostic soldier View Post
Are you serious? Zeus was a god in greek mythology. Maybe you should spend some time learning.
Zeus == Jupiter. The planets were all named after Greek gods.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-27-2010, 12:44 PM
 
Location: Somewhere out there
9,616 posts, read 11,069,422 times
Reputation: 3717
Quote:
Originally Posted by teagal View Post
If you truly didn't believe in God you wouldn't be here taping at a keyboard to argue the point.
You'd be off picking daisies or something elsewhere laughing at all of the believers!

Pssst, there is evidence! You just refuse it as so
Psssst.... yes, but evidence of what, exactly? You choose to happily assign the evidence where it may not belong, especially given that much which the bible claims to be has been completely discredited on technical grounds.

Now, given the near-infinite number of possibilities for pre-universe "time and space", or parallel universes, or time warps, or simply things well beyond our limited intellect, why settle for a silly, illogical and implausible version that came from a kindergarten-level understanding 2000 years ago? Because you need it? Can't possibly live without a complete explanation, even if it's totally wrong? Hmmmm.... That would be your problem then, not ours.

Given that you choose a version of reality for which not a single one of us has any first-hand knowledge, it's always interesting that the Christian perspective is that their's is the one and only option. Then you inevitably toss in that ringer:

"Why can't you atheists see the evidence that's right there in front of you? We're here, therefore we were created by God."

Huh? "therefore?" A big huge jump in logic there, I'd say.

Remember now, the only "evidence" you have is some badly translated and very ambiguous biblical mumbo-jumbo in Genesis, hardly well described, where, in a few lines it states that God created a dome for the skies and then pasted some tiny little lights (Holes? LEDs? Candles? Fireflies?) up there.

This interpretation was, of course, the product of totally and completely "scientifically illiterate" minds of the time, innocently gazing up in constant awe, and when a meteorite streaked across that scary sky, they all wanted to run and hide, or attribute it to being another message from God.

"Better go kill a lamb, Martha! God hath spoken!"


So much for rationality and keen observation. But to add insult, they wrote it down as they thought they understood it, as "The Truth".

So sadly though, you folks, right here in the 21st Century, where we can go see Hubble telescope photos continue to buy into it, hook, line and bait.

Well, thanks, but I'm a bit more circumspect and skeptical, especially when I can look at those Hubble photos (as just one of hundreds of examples and info sites) and see well over and past God's shoulder.

HubbleSite - Picture Album
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-27-2010, 06:15 PM
 
Location: Texas
32,576 posts, read 17,670,639 times
Reputation: 18682
Quote:
Originally Posted by Salt & Light View Post
You claim that I see order simply because I want to see order but the truth is, I see order because it is an observable fact. Any environmentalist, doctor or 6th grader realizes how delicately balanced an ecosystem must be to support life. Mathematics proves the odds of attaining and maintaining life as being beyond human comprehension.
Could you share this mathematical proof?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-27-2010, 09:04 PM
 
Location: Western NC
651 posts, read 1,245,632 times
Reputation: 497
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Gringo View Post
Could you share this mathematical proof?
P'shaw. Pick up any homeschooler's creationist textbook and the math will be there for ya'.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-28-2010, 06:13 AM
 
Location: alabama
200 posts, read 258,743 times
Reputation: 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by NightBazaar View Post
I'm trying to understand your view. Are you saying that you think there was nothing before the universe, then for no apparant reason the universe suddenly sprung from a singularity and in the process the universe created space and time? Or are you saying that such a description doesn't make any sense and is therefore illogical?
Okay...lets look back in time, to a time, when there was no time.
Lets look back in space, to a place, where there was no space.
Follow?
Everything was concentrated into a singularity. A singularity is an "object" that is so dense matter collapses upon itself. There was nothing but an attractive force, i.e. gravity. But since there was nothing to attract, was there even gravity?

Then this singularity rapidly exapanded. (stops to question why it did)
Then it continues to expand and expand.

So I says to myself...self, the universe is dissolving, just like a sugar cube in an endless sea of distilled water.

Well then.. why are galaxies running into each other?
If everything expanded from the "center" going at a rapid speed moving away from the "center" why are the running into each other?.

If Mr. Newton was correct "any object in motion tends to stay in motion", this should not be so.
Then we have "dark matter". Shouldn't it be moving also?

since man has a genius for making simple things complicated...

Lets examine a simple answer.

And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top