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Old 03-28-2010, 07:20 AM
 
Location: alabama
200 posts, read 259,013 times
Reputation: 55

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and how do you measure absolute zero with something that gives off heat?

But that is a different story..Mr. Heisenburg
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Old 03-28-2010, 11:12 AM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
30,040 posts, read 30,723,387 times
Reputation: 12222
Quote:
Originally Posted by mmm...mabeynot View Post
Okay...lets look back in time, to a time, when there was no time.
Lets look back in space, to a place, where there was no space.
Follow?
Everything was concentrated into a singularity. A singularity is an "object" that is so dense matter collapses upon itself. There was nothing but an attractive force, i.e. gravity. But since there was nothing to attract, was there even gravity?

Then this singularity rapidly exapanded. (stops to question why it did)
Then it continues to expand and expand.

So I says to myself...self, the universe is dissolving, just like a sugar cube in an endless sea of distilled water.

Well then.. why are galaxies running into each other?
If everything expanded from the "center" going at a rapid speed moving away from the "center" why are the running into each other?.
This new discovery will explain why galaxies are colliding.


HubbleSite - Hubble Discoveries - Dark Energy
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Old 03-28-2010, 03:23 PM
 
Location: alabama
200 posts, read 259,013 times
Reputation: 55
There is an unseen force in the universe.


Well...anyway...some people can't see it.

We have to start with a good foundation.
A rock so to speak.

In the begining God created the heavens and the earth.

He is also the one that is making the universe expand.

The bible said that that centuries ago...and after considerable thought I agree.
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Old 03-28-2010, 03:38 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
30,040 posts, read 30,723,387 times
Reputation: 12222
I have no idea why some put so much faith in a book written by uneducated people long before the dark ages...Those folks had no idea what made the universe. I don't think they even knew that there WAS a universe. They did the best they could with no knowledge....The just made up stories to explain what they couldn't understand. I much prefer to learn and embrace new knowledge... If we had all believed these old tales, and never tried to learn anything new, we'd still be living in huts, cooking with sticks and riding on camels.

It may never happen, but I look forward to the day when all is known about our universe and it's beginnings.
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Old 03-28-2010, 03:47 PM
 
3,614 posts, read 2,955,826 times
Reputation: 909
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
I have no idea why some put so much faith in a book written by uneducated people long before the dark ages...Those folks had no idea what made the universe. I don't think they even knew that there WAS a universe. They did the best they could with no knowledge....The just made up stories to explain what they couldn't understand. I much prefer to learn and embrace new knowledge... If we had all believed these old tales, and never tried to learn anything new, we'd still be living in huts, cooking with sticks and riding on camels.

It may never happen, but I look forward to the day when all is known about our universe and it's beginnings.
Religion has survived so long because they get away with adjusting "God's Word" to fit modern knowledge. You know about Old Earth Creationists? The ones that claim "days" could have actually been millions or billions of years? Or the "gap theorists" that say between day X and day Y is when Satan revolted?

It's backward logic. They are retroactively adjusting their interpretation of the bible to fit modern knowledge, instead of righly rejecting the thing in the first place because it came from 3500 years ago.
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Old 03-28-2010, 04:44 PM
 
4,990 posts, read 7,780,700 times
Reputation: 2879
Quote:
Originally Posted by mmm...mabeynot View Post
Okay...lets look back in time, to a time, when there was no time.
Lets look back in space, to a place, where there was no space.
Follow?
Everything was concentrated into a singularity. A singularity is an "object" that is so dense matter collapses upon itself. There was nothing but an attractive force, i.e. gravity. But since there was nothing to attract, was there even gravity?

Then this singularity rapidly exapanded. (stops to question why it did)
Then it continues to expand and expand.

So I says to myself...self, the universe is dissolving, just like a sugar cube in an endless sea of distilled water.

Well then.. why are galaxies running into each other?
If everything expanded from the "center" going at a rapid speed moving away from the "center" why are the running into each other?.

If Mr. Newton was correct "any object in motion tends to stay in motion", this should not be so.
Then we have "dark matter". Shouldn't it be moving also?

since man has a genius for making simple things complicated...

Lets examine a simple answer.

And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
Thank you for the reply Mabeynot. While I appreciate your effort in questioning why the universe came to be as it did, it doesn't really answer what I had asked. It doesn't really answer the question posed by the thread which is: Did the universe come out of nothing or not? Was there something BEFORE the universe came into existence? These are questions related to cosmology, which happens to be a subject of interest to me.

Your reply, in conjunction with your previous reply, seems to be that you believe the universe had a beginning because God said, "Let there be light" (Genesis 1:3). That's fine, but that's more of an explanation of WHY than an explanation of HOW. It doesn't tell us anything about the process that took place. It doesn't tell us much about the makeup of space and time.

There are some problems with the Genesis account, in particular, that it seems to suggest the Earth existed before anything else in the universe did (see Genesis 1:2), even before light. The Earth was filled with plants of all kinds on the third day (Genesis 1:11-13). It wasn't until the fourth day (Genesis 1:14-19) that the Sun, Moon and stars were finally formed. How long was a day of creation? That's significant since it provides a reference about Time. Was it 24 hours? Was it millions or billions of years? We're left to guess because the Genesis account doesn't tell us.


"Well then.. why are galaxies running into each other?
If everything expanded from the "center" going at a rapid speed moving away from the "center" why are the running into each other?"

If the universe was shaped like a sphere, then it would be reasonable to think there would be a center where it all began. The problem is that's not exactly how the universe is shaped. It's a lot stranger than that. Keep in mind that when you're talking about the universe, it's not just a three-dimensional thing like a galaxy, a star, a planet, or even a person. The shape of the universe involves at least four dimensions. It involves areas of greater density and areas of less density. It also involves warping of space and time because of the gravitational effect of masses.

It's not that galaxies are speeding away from each other. It's that the space of the universe itself is expanding. Galaxies, local clusters and super clusters are influenced and bound together by their own gravitational attraction, which may very well include Dark Matter.


You previously posed certain ideas, that I presume were meant to show that science doesn't have all the answers. I agree. It doesn't. But neither does it mean tossing the baby out with the bath water. Science is not anti-religion nor is it anti-atheism, although there are people who hold those views. Science is about looking around our surroundings to identify and understand things. That said, let's take another look at what you previously said.

"There was no time.
There was no space.

No time for something to happen...no place for something to happen.

And then the universe expanded from a singularity.

The universe "created" space.
The universe "created" time."

Here are a few questions for you.

- What exactly is space?
- What is time?
- How do you know there "was no" time or space before the universe came into existence?
- How do you know time and space was created by the universe?
- What is the universe?

Your answers, as best you can reasonably give, will be greatly appreciated.
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Old 03-28-2010, 04:45 PM
 
Location: alabama
200 posts, read 259,013 times
Reputation: 55
Lets see...The gap theory.
Made popular and well known by two men; George H Palmer in 1876 and C.I Scoffield in 1917.


Scripture does not support the gap theory.

Last edited by mmm...mabeynot; 03-28-2010 at 05:00 PM..
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Old 03-28-2010, 05:07 PM
 
31,385 posts, read 31,107,711 times
Reputation: 14878
Quote:
Originally Posted by mmm...mabeynot View Post

The bible said that that centuries ago...and after considerable thought I agree.
Well that's interesting since NO ONE believed that the universe was expanding prior to Edwin Hubble.
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Old 03-29-2010, 08:21 AM
 
5,463 posts, read 5,790,391 times
Reputation: 1803
Quote:
Originally Posted by mmm...mabeynot View Post
Okay...lets look back in time, to a time, when there was no time.
Lets look back in space, to a place, where there was no space.
Follow?
Everything was concentrated into a singularity. A singularity is an "object" that is so dense matter collapses upon itself.
Nope, a singularity is a condition where the models we use to describe the universe break down. That should be a hint that scientists know there are limits to their current understanding. You might take a cue from them.

Quote:
There was nothing but an attractive force, i.e. gravity. But since there was nothing to attract, was there even gravity?
But you just said everything was there. Which is is - everything or nothing?

And your misunderstanding of physics is showing here. I'll let you figure out what forces you're missing.

Quote:
Well then.. why are galaxies running into each other?
If everything expanded from the "center" going at a rapid speed moving away from the "center" why are the running into each other?.
Because gravity overcomes the expansion at small scales.

Quote:
If Mr. Newton was correct "any object in motion tends to stay in motion", this should not be so.
You left out "until acted on by an outside force".

Quote:
Then we have "dark matter". Shouldn't it be moving also?
Yes. As far as we know, it's moving like everything else. How do you think we know it's there in the first place? Physicists didn't read about it in the Bible and automatically believe, you know.

Quote:
since man has a genius for making simple things complicated...

Lets examine a simple answer.

And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
An even simpler answer is "it just is, don't ask questions". No need to add Gods and talking animals and a magic tree and all of that extra fluff if you're honestly looking to be simple. But you're not - you're know that one specific answer is the only one you'll accept and will use any path to get there, no matter how tortured.
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Old 03-29-2010, 08:51 AM
 
Location: Somewhere out there
9,616 posts, read 11,081,216 times
Reputation: 3717
Default The Truth. Only modified. Just a teeny bit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
I have no idea why some put so much faith in a book written by uneducated people long before the dark ages...Those folks had no idea what made the universe. I don't think they even knew that there WAS a universe.
Ahhh but you do, sanspeur, you do understand. It's precisely because the entire system is predicated on maintaining power over the masses. Suppression of new knowledge has been a cornerstone of the Church following the Council of Nicea during which, apparently, about 20 books of the gospels were discussed and then removed because they interfered with the absolute power of a standardized church structure and administration. Ther gnostics? Throw them out; too "spiritual". Peter's notes? Nahhh. They "conflict" with the story of Jesus we want out there. An alternate perspective on Judas? Forget it! Doesn't fit our "Mission Statement".

Plus, everybody needs a good "bad guy" in every story. Just look at all those early westerns: white hat/black hat. Simple. Keep it simple, lest the peons get all confused!

(BTW, 99 out of 100 scientists prefer black hats...)

The truth? A sad consequence . Why didn't the Church embrace knowledge, and allow for it's growth? Because that wouldn't serve the greed and avarice of the church fathers, who were, after all, "only human". Else, how would they have ever amassed the spectacular wealth now so easily visible in the RC Church, for instance? Or in Benny Hinn's checking account?

They missed the obvious: that true knowledge is power. The Large Hadron Collider trumps a Sunday School version of Genesis, and it's starting to show in our children. (And predictably, though it's workings and theory are so far beyond the understanding of about 99.9999% of even the educated population, the word's out: the LHC may uncover or explain previously problematic aspects of the universe and it's beginnings, and therefore it's a designated target for chanting demonstrators. All the builders had to mention was that it might find "The God Particle" which will help explain some aspects of the origins of the universe, and the struggle was on. A Godly Smack-Down in France.)

See how it all fits so nicely. And then along comes you, with your logical smarty-pants ideas about how things really might work..... I'm amazed, actually, that the church doesn't have hit man squads out looking for the likes of you and I....

Stay low, sans. Stay low.
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