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Old 03-19-2010, 11:07 AM
 
Location: Somewhere out there
9,616 posts, read 11,079,568 times
Reputation: 3717

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Quote:
Originally Posted by dobeable View Post
can anyone tell me how to get you-tube clips on here if its not too much to ask-thanks
I'm going to probably regret this, because I just know what you will be posting as "incontrovertible Fact", as in "Here; it's on YouTube from The Creationist Institute. That proves it!"

Well, not so much, frankly, and we can post just as many as you can, but ours are always better thought-out answers...

First off, though, dobeable, I have to tell you: your answers so far clearly indicate a complete ignorance of how Evolution works. Even if you disagree with Evolution, you really should try to come up to speed on the basics, don't you think? Your approach is like me attacking the bible by completely mis-quoting it, referencing Qu'Ran scripture as having come from the King James version of the bible, or saying that "Jesus could turn hair green, just like it says in the bible!".

Evolution is quite logical (as one would assume for such a system to work as well as it has). It does not require conscious effort or decision by a band of monkeys who "want to become something else". It all happens because our DNA sequences mutate through entirely natural means such as the constant bombardment of gamma and other ionizing radiation from space, Radon, X-Rays, etc.

Why do you suppose people who were exposed to the radiation in Hiroshima and Nagasaki got lethally high rates of cancer later in their lives? Answer: Their DNA was corrupted. But in tiny doses, mutations do occur; we can and do measure these mutations, dobeable. You cannot just deny they happen.

AS well, the mechanism that transcribes the exact DNA sequence onto the new cell structure (or do you also deny cellular division?) makes mistakes. All subsequent daughter cells will obviously carry this mistake unless it's lethal, and there are plenty of examples of that.

But occasionally, over hundreds of millions of years, a few good mutations do occur, ones that improve or significantly change the breed. These do not require that the originator disappear, nor that the new species will succeed for eternity. Some only "fit the bill" as it were, for a short time, and then go extinct. They may have only fit that bill during a particular ice age, or warming period. Else, why do we find mammoth remains in Alaska, but no longer?

I suggest that, in any intellectually honest debate, it's incumbent on the debater to thoroughly understand the topics, and not to rely on others to do their thinking for them. Such an approach only serves to illustrate a lack of honesty, broad-based education or willing open-mindedness. Surely you don't want to be painted with that brush?
____________________________

So, on to your request. Anything, any page you find on the net that you want to paste here, just open the desired page (YouTube for instance) and then double-click on the header bar, it's website address, until it's all highlighted. Then click to copy (control or command C), then come back to your new C-D post, and place your cursor where you want the link to be and click on Control or command V (paste) which will drop your chosen link at that spot.

Simple huh? So now, show us what you think disproves the already proven.

But always remember: it's been proven to scientifically literate individuals. It's only a big issue to unyielding fundamentalist Christians who just can't bear to realize it's full implications. So forge on, my good person (man/woman?)!
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Old 03-19-2010, 11:16 AM
 
3,614 posts, read 2,955,388 times
Reputation: 909
Quote:
Originally Posted by rifleman View Post
...our DNA sequences mutate through entirely natural means such as the constant bombardment of gamma and other ionizing radiation from space, Radon, X-Rays, etc.
But Rifleman, there is no such thing as natural.
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Old 03-19-2010, 11:25 AM
 
31,385 posts, read 31,101,926 times
Reputation: 14878
[quote=dobeable;13355902][quote=ovcatto;13352692]I'm dying to know how you believe that humans come in all hues and shapes.
Quote:

a human is still a human no matter what shape or size
My question wasn't posed for the purposes of a racial gothcha, but rather to point out that what some refer to as races are nothing more than human mutations that were caused by environmental adaptation.
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Old 03-19-2010, 11:29 AM
 
598 posts, read 811,411 times
Reputation: 139
"Design" is actually a communication tool for mass production -- put it on blue print first so that many can be manufactured on the factory floor according to the plan.

So when someone says "design-features" in humans, does he mean such "features" will be carbon-copied somewhere else? Who is to read such "designs"? Why "designs" needed?
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Old 03-19-2010, 11:31 AM
 
Location: Valencia, Spain
13,925 posts, read 9,680,660 times
Reputation: 2407
Quote:
Originally Posted by dobeable View Post
but if you want to base your knowledge on theory then go ahead

a scientist is someone that KNOWS something about a particular subject so its not even science is it
Aww c'mon man...come clean now! You're a POE aren't you?
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Old 03-19-2010, 11:47 AM
 
31,385 posts, read 31,101,926 times
Reputation: 14878
For anyone interested in a excellent presentation of arguments for and against evolution, I strongly recommend this PBS documentary about the Federal trial that came about as a result of the Dover, PA, school board's attempt to institute intelligent design into their schools curriculum.

Judgment Day: Intelligent Design on Trial | NOVA | PBS Video
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Old 03-19-2010, 11:49 AM
 
Location: Somewhere out there
9,616 posts, read 11,079,568 times
Reputation: 3717
Quote:
Originally Posted by dobeable View Post
i didnt say it was all rubbish now did I

but if you want to base your knowledge on theory then go ahead

a scientist is someone that KNOWS something about a particular subject so its not even science is it

and ive another question for the THEORY- in every animal species the level of intelegence,say from a single cell organism all the way up to a dolphin or whatever is the most intellagent animal,are all very closely toghether-but there is a massive leap between mans intellegence and the smartest animal- so if evolutionis the way then would'nt their be many more animals nearly at the same level as us

enough of the smart remarks mr."SCIENTIST" -grow up m8 theres alot more important things than trying to undrestand Theorys especialy ones that dont relate to life itself-mental speculation-aint gonna make you feel any better

the difference between us and the animals is that we have the ability to understand God,our material nature is the same as theirs-eating,sleaping,mating and defending-but it is only us that have the power and intellegence to cultivate spiritual life-when you die you cant take any material gain with you not matter how much you've acheived but whatever spiritual advancement is made here that you will take with you-

life comes from life
"We can conclude, my fellow members, the level of intellectual discourse possible from an individual by his or her ready use of the language, and utility of available passages of confirmation. One's fallibility or value is thus defined."

John Stuart, British Commonwealth Issues forum, 1796; London, England.
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Old 03-19-2010, 11:52 AM
 
1,838 posts, read 1,933,648 times
Reputation: 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by rifleman View Post
I'm going to probably regret this, because I just know what you will be posting as "incontrovertible Fact", as in "Here; it's on YouTube from The Creationist Institute. That proves it!"

Well, not so much, frankly, and we can post just as many as you can, but ours are always better thought-out answers...

First off, though, dobeable, I have to tell you: your answers so far clearly indicate a complete ignorance of how Evolution works. Even if you disagree with Evolution, you really should try to come up to speed on the basics, don't you think? Your approach is like me attacking the bible by completely mis-quoting it, referencing Qu'Ran scripture as having come from the King James version of the bible, or saying that "Jesus could turn hair green, just like it says in the bible!".

Evolution is quite logical (as one would assume for such a system to work as well as it has). It does not require conscious effort or decision by a band of monkeys who "want to become something else". It all happens because our DNA sequences mutate through entirely natural means such as the constant bombardment of gamma and other ionizing radiation from space, Radon, X-Rays, etc.

Why do you suppose people who were exposed to the radiation in Hiroshima and Nagasaki got lethally high rates of cancer later in their lives? Answer: Their DNA was corrupted. But in tiny doses, mutations do occur; we can and do measure these mutations, dobeable. You cannot just deny they happen.

AS well, the mechanism that transcribes the exact DNA sequence onto the new cell structure (or do you also deny cellular division?) makes mistakes. All subsequent daughter cells will obviously carry this mistake unless it's lethal, and there are plenty of examples of that.

But occasionally, over hundreds of millions of years, a few good mutations do occur, ones that improve or significantly change the breed. These do not require that the originator disappear, nor that the new species will succeed for eternity. Some only "fit the bill" as it were, for a short time, and then go extinct. They may have only fit that bill during a particular ice age, or warming period. Else, why do we find mammoth remains in Alaska, but no longer?

I suggest that, in any intellectually honest debate, it's incumbent on the debater to thoroughly understand the topics, and not to rely on others to do their thinking for them. Such an approach only serves to illustrate a lack of honesty, broad-based education or willing open-mindedness. Surely you don't want to be painted with that brush?
____________________________

So, on to your request. Anything, any page you find on the net that you want to paste here, just open the desired page (YouTube for instance) and then double-click on the header bar, it's website address, until it's all highlighted. Then click to copy (control or command C), then come back to your new C-D post, and place your cursor where you want the link to be and click on Control or command V (paste) which will drop your chosen link at that spot.

Simple huh? So now, show us what you think disproves the already proven.

But always remember: it's been proven to scientifically literate individuals. It's only a big issue to unyielding fundamentalist Christians who just can't bear to realize it's full implications. So forge on, my good person (man/woman?)!
thanks for your awnser-really appreciate it

its true my knowledge of mutation is little or none but there is still no evidence that shows that one species can change into an entirely different species (or correct me if im wrong)-

genes may mutate and maybe sometimes for the better but that dosnt meen fish are goin to start growing lungs and legs and stuff

bye the way im not a fundamentalist christian-im far from it- im sick of arguing with them over their eternal hell and many other missinterpreted butchered bible text and you can refer to me as man and tanks 4 the help on the other thing ill see if i can find the clip im lookin 4

peace
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Old 03-19-2010, 11:53 AM
 
37,596 posts, read 25,294,156 times
Reputation: 5860
Quote:
Originally Posted by Konraden View Post
But Rifleman, there is no such thing as natural.
There would be if you had a SOURCE for it's control "properties ". . . otherwise it is a nonsense word for cowed scientists fearing a resurgence of religious tyranny and bigotry. I realize you guys got treated atrociously . . . but it HAS been a long time now (of course the Creationist attempts to infiltrate science curricula are distressing . . . but they would probably cease if you simply acknowledged the basis for a generic belief in God that does exist.) Let them have the rest of their irrational beliefs to go with it.
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Old 03-19-2010, 11:55 AM
 
Location: Somewhere out there
9,616 posts, read 11,079,568 times
Reputation: 3717
Default Bbbbaaaa...aaaaa...aahh!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ovcatto View Post
"For anyone interested in a excellent presentation of arguments for and against evolution..."
Hmmm.... ovcatto: good link, but you make a big assumption of "interest" here, wouldn't you say? I always say "Consider the source", but in this case, I might also add: "Consider the audience".

(I once tried to read some of Robert Services' poetry to a herd of sheep; they all looked at me in about the same way....)
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