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Old 03-23-2010, 12:50 PM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
19,865 posts, read 18,404,032 times
Reputation: 7965

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatest I am View Post
First on good and evil.
In moral terms, the terms Good & Evil are only useful on a graph & are Inseparable.
I see that many just look at these terms as opposites.
Black white.
Hot cold.
Whatever.
It does not matter because, in moral terms, good and evil must be on a graph to be of any use to any discussion of moral issues.
That is why the ancients wrote them into the Bible as the tree of good and evil.
Itís fruit symbolizes that good and evil cannot be separated.

As nouns, forget it. For morals, they do not stand well alone.
As adjectives, they are good.
The issues is not what we call the ends of our graph. Good and evil are good and I do not want to discuss the issue of what good and evil mean.
It is what goes between these two adjectives that is at issue and how and where we place them on the graph.
Ideally, the good and evil line will have a top and a bottom because issues often times have both within their character.
Like God for instance.
Basically, if you are arguing good and evil in any other way than described here; you are IMHO, wasting your time.
If you look to God for our moral sense you are also wasting your time because it is to mankind to set the rules of our dominion.
Thoughts?

Next on our evolving perfection.
You cannot see the perfection of the systems around us because you focus on the errors that you see and I grant you that there are many.
You have to remember that evolution works by having errors occur. Take the errors out of it and the search for the fittest ends.

Regards
DL

Regards
DL
Well, you have your opinion and I have mine, which of course do not match.
Nobody said things are either black or white, that simplification of the world is more typical of the American mindset (either you are with us or against us, friend or foe, etc.), but I am no American.

Still, I do think that some things are indeed 100% good and others 100% bad, even if good things may sometimes lead to bad results and vice versa. The ends don't justify the means, but the means justify the ends, in my opinion.
I don't agree at all with the old attitude that there is a flip side to everything. Usually this is used as a pretext or excuse for bad behavior. In this case to excuse the bad aspects of the world, to find meaning in the things nature simply screwed up from a human perspective. I have no problem seeing the bad things in nature, regardless if nature is the result of evolution or creation. Since I am an atheist, I don't have to feel romantic about the world around me, I don't have to find any meaning in it. To me it is a system of organic and anorganic matter, energy and so on, without any higher goal, but only low ones, mainly survival.
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Old 03-23-2010, 12:57 PM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
19,865 posts, read 18,404,032 times
Reputation: 7965
Quote:
Originally Posted by baket View Post
it appears to me the root of hatred to our God is PAIN. people can't fathom to experience pain and when they see people in pain, they ask why it has to happen. Jesus death and suffering is a good lesson to reflect on that. and if you don't believe in Jesus as God or any god at all. can't you try and understand why pain has to happen? just from reading the passion of the christ story? regard at as fiction. even watch the passion of the christ movie. regard at as only a movie. you can't see why pain and suffering happens? how and who made it happen?

even the most loathed idea of eternal torture in hell is evident of the fact - people don't like pain. all i can say is, the masochist has the best life ever. they LOVE pain so much, that hell is gonna be heaven to them. i wonder if masochists worship God more for that.

What you say may make sense from the viewpoint of a religious person, but not from my perspective.

Masochists are mentally ill, sorry.
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Old 03-24-2010, 08:08 AM
 
1,736 posts, read 1,840,246 times
Reputation: 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by baket View Post
it appears to me the root of hatred to our God is PAIN. people can't fathom to experience pain and when they see people in pain, they ask why it has to happen. Jesus death and suffering is a good lesson to reflect on that. and if you don't believe in Jesus as God or any god at all. can't you try and understand why pain has to happen? just from reading the passion of the christ story? regard at as fiction. even watch the passion of the christ movie. regard at as only a movie. you can't see why pain and suffering happens? how and who made it happen?

even the most loathed idea of eternal torture in hell is evident of the fact - people don't like pain. all i can say is, the masochist has the best life ever. they LOVE pain so much, that hell is gonna be heaven to them. i wonder if masochists worship God more for that.
Hell would be an immoral construct and God would not create it.

The wages of sin is usually pleasure, not death. trust me I am a live sinner and had much fun sinning.

If you answer this, I will know your view of itís morality.

Is it just for a man to be able to sin for only 120 years and then have to spend 120000000000000000000+ years in a place of torture?

Regards
DL
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Old 03-24-2010, 08:59 AM
 
354 posts, read 679,165 times
Reputation: 81
actually if your sin is incest, pedophilia, serial killing, rape, brutality, to name a few. eternal torture is NOT enough punishment. do u agree or disagree? explain. worth 5 points heheh.

Last edited by baket; 03-24-2010 at 09:34 AM..
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Old 03-24-2010, 12:27 PM
 
1,736 posts, read 1,840,246 times
Reputation: 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by baket View Post
actually if your sin is incest, pedophilia, serial killing, rape, brutality, to name a few. eternal torture is NOT enough punishment. do u agree or disagree? explain. worth 5 points heheh.
I do not agree.

Punishment is given to change attitude or actions.

To continue torture after a change of attitude or repentance has occurred is then just done out of cruelty because there is no purpose to the torture.

If repentance or a change of attitude is impossible then to torture has again no purpose and is done only out of cruelty and the just thing to do is to kill the offender.

Regards
DL
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