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Old 03-28-2010, 03:44 AM
 
Location: 30-40N 90-100W
13,856 posts, read 22,240,819 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arjay51 View Post
Yep. You can't, with repeatable proof, prove differently. You just have faith, another man-made concept.
The scientific method is also a man-made concept. I believe in it for what it's intended to do, explain repeatable natural phenomenon, but the idea it's the only way to know if something is true is just some oddball philosophical position. A position that is almost obviously false.

The only proofs that are solidly true are math proofs and those don't really involve scientific method. Science is pretty much always just provisional. Although even math is unable to answer certain questions by showing that some questions can't really be answered. (Godel's Incompleteness) Still the kind of naive scientism you express is maybe interesting, in an anachronistic "throw back to the Edwardian age" kind of way.

 
Old 03-28-2010, 05:52 AM
 
354 posts, read 677,752 times
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thomas i concur on what u say about science. but science has no answer for everything. in fact why does evolution's natural selection and adaptation FAILED on other planets? even math proofs are man made. it is the scholars and philosophers back in BC years, usually greeks, that deem it right by their man made formulas. i remember studying the history of branches of math and they are always greek philosophers. so what? their word is truth? their proof is their mathematical solution based on the formula they made? proof that their evidence is man made.

Last edited by baket; 03-28-2010 at 06:00 AM..
 
Old 03-28-2010, 08:06 AM
 
Location: The land where cats rule
10,946 posts, read 7,977,821 times
Reputation: 3602
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas R. View Post
The scientific method is also a man-made concept. I believe in it for what it's intended to do, explain repeatable natural phenomenon, but the idea it's the only way to know if something is true is just some oddball philosophical position. A position that is almost obviously false.

The only proofs that are solidly true are math proofs and those don't really involve scientific method. Science is pretty much always just provisional. Although even math is unable to answer certain questions by showing that some questions can't really be answered. (Godel's Incompleteness) Still the kind of naive scientism you express is maybe interesting, in an anachronistic "throw back to the Edwardian age" kind of way.
And you truly do not consider and apply the same measure to your "faith" in this god?

Answers to every question? Made up to fit with your "faith".

Religion and belief in this "god" is a placebo for those who wish to turn off their minds and have nanny take care of them.

In other words, a useless fantasy.
 
Old 03-28-2010, 05:05 PM
 
Location: 30-40N 90-100W
13,856 posts, read 22,240,819 times
Reputation: 6657
I think you must have a very limited or narrow view of what religion is or can be.

Religions built the first universities and religious schools are still where many of the world's people learn to read. Religious hospitals and charities are still why many people survive infancy. And then there's art. Atheism itself can't inspire music, painting, sculpture, theater, etc the way religion does. (This does not mean atheists can't be inspired to do art, but they do so either as a reaction against religion or are inspired by a philosophy/school that can't be boiled down to "atheist") To slough it off as useless shows how really deficient you are in understanding human history, culture, or psychology. Like I said you're an amusing Edwardian dinosaur.
 
Old 03-28-2010, 05:08 PM
 
Location: Southern NC
1,917 posts, read 4,225,788 times
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When I hear the word "religion" it makes me think of hate and bigotry.
 
Old 03-28-2010, 05:42 PM
 
Location: The land where cats rule
10,946 posts, read 7,977,821 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas R. View Post
I think you must have a very limited or narrow view of what religion is or can be.

Religions built the first universities and religious schools are still where many of the world's people learn to read. Religious hospitals and charities are still why many people survive infancy. And then there's art. Atheism itself can't inspire music, painting, sculpture, theater, etc the way religion does. (This does not mean atheists can't be inspired to do art, but they do so either as a reaction against religion or are inspired by a philosophy/school that can't be boiled down to "atheist") To slough it off as useless shows how really deficient you are in understanding human history, culture, or psychology. Like I said you're an amusing Edwardian dinosaur.
Or is it that you so truly enjoy your fantasies that you cannot see anything else?

Religion built what you cite because, by law and political power, they were the only ones able to read, held all the money and property. Not through their own virtue, but by intimidation.

Deficient understanding? Perhaps a mirror and a dose of truth would be of assistance to you.
 
Old 03-28-2010, 06:55 PM
Status: "Build the damn wall!" (set 6 days ago)
 
Location: The Haunted Mansion
15,141 posts, read 8,229,213 times
Reputation: 1544
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arjay51 View Post
Yep. You can't, with repeatable proof, prove differently. You just have faith, another manmade concept.
You're 100% sure something isn't true because it hasn't been proven yet? Sounds like you're close-minded!
 
Old 03-28-2010, 06:55 PM
 
Location: 30-40N 90-100W
13,856 posts, read 22,240,819 times
Reputation: 6657
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arjay51 View Post
Or is it that you so truly enjoy your fantasies that you cannot see anything else?

Religion built what you cite because, by law and political power, they were the only ones able to read, held all the money and property. Not through their own virtue, but by intimidation.

Deficient understanding? Perhaps a mirror and a dose of truth would be of assistance to you.
I have a degree in history. Religions that have little power or money have also done these things. The Moravians built colleges in the Americas and they didn't exactly have power here. Jesuits in China and Japan introduced some science to them and although they gained some power they were still under non-Christians sufferance. The "Name-Worshippers" of Russia were despised heretics and they advanced descriptive set theory. The poor and powerless have been inspired by their faiths to write poetry, build buildings, help others, etc.

Moderator cut: attack

Last edited by Miss Blue; 03-28-2010 at 07:06 PM.. Reason: attack the idea, not the person
 
Old 03-28-2010, 06:58 PM
 
Location: The land where cats rule
10,946 posts, read 7,977,821 times
Reputation: 3602
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
You're 100% sure something isn't true because it hasn't been proven yet? Sounds like you're close-minded!
No, I am 100% sure because your god fallacy has been proven wrong. Close minded would be rejecting evidence that you do not agree with, as you continue to do.
 
Old 03-28-2010, 07:02 PM
Status: "Build the damn wall!" (set 6 days ago)
 
Location: The Haunted Mansion
15,141 posts, read 8,229,213 times
Reputation: 1544
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arjay51 View Post
No, I am 100% sure because your god fallacy has been proven wrong. Close minded would be rejecting evidence that you do not agree with, as you continue to do.
Where is this irrefutable truth?
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