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Old 03-23-2010, 12:07 PM
 
Location: PA
2,616 posts, read 3,928,117 times
Reputation: 465

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Quote:
Originally Posted by HonuMan View Post
Nikk, have you actually studied any of these other cultures and religions to learn what they're really about, or are you just spouting back dogma that's been spoken to you? You're making a lot of inaccurate and offensive statements, and you probably don't even realize it.

For the record, I'm agnostic. I'm married to a Christian, went to church with her for a year, studied the Bible, and read commentary on it. My wife is a Christian in (to me) the best sense: she practices kindness and helps others in need. She was the first Christian I'd ever spent time with who didn't evangelize, or tell me I'd go to hell if I didn't accept Jesus as my savior. As someone who used to be very self-centered, I learned a lot about selflessness from her and from Christianity.

We also have studied Native American history and culture (it started with a college research project) and became involved with the Native community as a result. We've participated in Lakota religious ceremonies and helped cook and tend fire at a vision quest. There is nothing evil or Satanic about any of this. Indians have the same core values of love, peace, and forgiveness that Christians do, and their religion is superior (in my opinion) when it comes to respecting nature and the environment, and not taking more than you need. The group we were involved with was fine with other religions, and just viewed them as God speaking to different cultures in ways that they could understand. The spiritual leader of this group was disowned by most of her own family after they converted to Christianity and were taught that their traditional ways were Satanic. I find that sad and tragic. I've also studied Hawaiian religion and Buddhism extensively, and found them to be more accepting of other religions than Christianity is. (My wife doesn't believe that Christianity is the only path, which has caused others to tell her that she's not a "real" Christian.)

It's all well and good to say, "This is what I believe," but you owe it to yourself and to those you would attempt to influence to think about the source of your beliefs and to study other beliefs that you find demonic and "wrong." Terrible things have been done in the name of Christianity (and other religions) when people have blindly accepted its teachings and used it as a justification for other actions (e.g., taking land from the native inhabitants). Another thing that the missionaries were guilty of was never quite viewing the natives they converted as their equals. The same mindset that caused them to come in and say, "Our religion is the only right and true one, and God has commanded us to convert you" also made them believe that their entire culture was superior -- and, by extension, that their race was superior. My wife, bless her, doesn't believe that Jesus himself would have condoned what the missionaries did.
To be a Christian, one is to follow the teachings of Jesus Christ. Jesus said, "I am the way the truth and the life, no man comes to the Father but by me." So, if your wife believes that there are many ways to God, she is not a Christian because she is not following the teachings of Jesus Christ. She may be a good person, but unfortunately good people do not go to heaven. Given her involvement in ungodly ceremonies gives currency to her unbelief.

Further, tolerance is not God, so Christians do not have to tolerate anything evil. We do not have to tolerate sin, because God does not tolerate sin. Any worship to any other God other then the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is sin. This is the first commandment, thou shalt have no other Gods before me!

Cultures around the world have many good features, but as I said above, being good or looking good does not make it righteous (aka "in right standing with God").

 
Old 03-23-2010, 12:10 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
30,043 posts, read 30,764,476 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikk View Post
If you mean by "destroying cultures" that Christian missionaries prevent people from worshiping idols and sacrificing to demons, then yes Christians destroy cultures.

Christians however set people free through the saving knowledge of Jesus Christ.
Nikk, you are an absolutely perfect example of the mindset of the early Christian ministries that caused so much grief and destruction. How do you know that they were worshiping demons? Perhaps it is you Christians that worship a demon, and theirs were true Gods....What if Christians have been wrong all along?
 
Old 03-23-2010, 12:13 PM
 
Location: Toronto, ON
2,333 posts, read 2,447,460 times
Reputation: 258
Question I am happy...

I am happy with the health I've come through for, and I am happy for the Will I've put forward for It. Is there something WRONG with that, by either the government secular OR the private seducing through and for greed (or something like that)?
 
Old 03-23-2010, 12:35 PM
 
Location: Log home in the Appalachians
10,495 posts, read 10,089,858 times
Reputation: 6839
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikk View Post
Any worship to any other God other then the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jaccob is worship to Satan.



[Do not look to the actions of people, because people are not good. Look to God who is righteous. The Christian is the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus. However, if a Christians acts immorally, then they are acting against what they believe. Those of the world (not of God) who act immorally are acting in accordance with what they believe. That is why we do not look to man, but to God alone.
]

And here are a few examples of what your dearly loving Christians did to the Native Americans.


YouTube - Indian Boarding School Abuse,


YouTube - Indian Boarding School Plan,


YouTube - Our Spirits Don't Speak English: Indian Boarding School
 
Old 03-23-2010, 12:57 PM
 
Location: Metromess
11,798 posts, read 21,406,915 times
Reputation: 5054
There is more than enough blame and guilt to go around for all the religions to share. The point is that they all sanctify violent and anethical actions. After all, with God/Allah/etc on one's side, anything goes when dealing with those not on God's/Allah's/etc's side. That is one of the decivilizing things about religion which make it so dangerous.
 
Old 03-23-2010, 01:24 PM
 
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
3,334 posts, read 5,130,037 times
Reputation: 2029
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikk View Post
Any worship to any other God other then the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jaccob is worship to Satan.
And this is the problem. You don't know anything about our belief....nothing. How do you know that our Numu Ahpa (Father of the People) and your Yahweh are not the same? How do you know whether or not your way is the right way and ours is not? You believe, but you don't know. And don't quote your book as it has been dicussed numerous times that your book is hardly a source to be taken literally or to be counted on.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikk View Post
Do not look to the actions of people, because people are not good. Look to God who is righteous. The Christian is the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus. However, if a Christians acts immorally, then they are acting against what they believe. Those of the world (not of God) who act immorally are acting in accordance with what they believe. That is why we do not look to man, but to God alone.
I'm sorry, I thought the you people were to be the lamp. That through you all men would be led to Christ. That by your actions...by your fruits...we would know you and him. Wasn't part of being "born again" that your old nature was put away? So, your actions should be scrutinized by those you wish to reach. You cannot say to people, "Hear my words and follow them, but ignore what I do because I suck." It doesn't work that way.

So, if your example is worthless and is not to be relied upon, what am I to conclude about your faith? Does god transform the believer or not?

You say not to look to men (and I would add - listen to them). You say to look to god only. Well guess what? This is what Indian people have always known. We had no need for you to tell us that. We never needed you nor your book because we knew the Creator through what was made. We were following Romans 1:18 long before the Europeans even arrived here. But since the Christian evangelizers (regardless of denomination) saw a reverence for the Creator that dared be different from their own in form, they immediately assumed a worship of demons and all that other vile crap you people spew. And you still do it to this day.

You are right. Creator is all we ever needed and your example is worthless. Since this is true, why listen to you evangelizers anyway? You are snakes and it is obvious by the actions we observe that you are not to be trusted. You own words say as much.

Last edited by Fullback32; 03-23-2010 at 01:40 PM..
 
Old 03-23-2010, 01:26 PM
 
Location: Portland, OR
1,082 posts, read 2,038,800 times
Reputation: 1260
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikk View Post
To be a Christian, one is to follow the teachings of Jesus Christ. Jesus said, "I am the way the truth and the life, no man comes to the Father but by me." So, if your wife believes that there are many ways to God, she is not a Christian because she is not following the teachings of Jesus Christ. She may be a good person, but unfortunately good people do not go to heaven. Given her involvement in ungodly ceremonies gives currency to her unbelief.

Further, tolerance is not God, so Christians do not have to tolerate anything evil. We do not have to tolerate sin, because God does not tolerate sin. Any worship to any other God other then the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is sin. This is the first commandment, thou shalt have no other Gods before me!

Cultures around the world have many good features, but as I said above, being good or looking good does not make it righteous (aka "in right standing with God").
You didn't address my central question. You just stated some of your beliefs (most of whch I disagree with), but you didn't say how you arrived at those beliefs, or whether you've seriously studied the other beliefs and cultures that you consider demonic and wrong. I don't claim to have absolute certainty with regard to my own beliefs, but I arrived at them by studying the alternatives I was aware of and seeing what made the most sense. In my experience, people who steadfastly claim that their way is the only right and true way, and can't provide any evidence to support it ("It says so in the Bible" isn't evidence), generally haven't looked into and gained an understanding of other viewpoints. Conversely, the more you study and try to understand other viewpoints, the more you find that many of your own views are relative and even arbitrary -- something that was handed down to you, which was handed down to the people who handed it down to you, and so on, but which isn't necessarily better than what other people had handed down to them. I don't believe in a literal heaven, but if I did, the idea that "good people don't get into heaven" -- that only people people who adhere to a technicality get into heaven -- would strike me as opposed to Jesus' message of love, peace, humility, tolerance, and forgiveness. But that's another discussion topic.
 
Old 03-23-2010, 01:28 PM
 
Location: PA
2,616 posts, read 3,928,117 times
Reputation: 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by catman View Post
There is more than enough blame and guilt to go around for all the religions to share. The point is that they all sanctify violent and anethical actions. After all, with God/Allah/etc on one's side, anything goes when dealing with those not on God's/Allah's/etc's side. That is one of the decivilizing things about religion which make it so dangerous.
It is not the religions, it is the heart of man that is desperately wicked and has used religion to persue his own ends.
 
Old 03-23-2010, 01:33 PM
 
4,083 posts, read 4,307,362 times
Reputation: 806
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikk View Post
It was a knife to the soul of many Jewish people because they rejected the Messiah. But many Jews accepted the teaching of the Messiah, Jesus, and were saved. Christianity is Just a (Jewish) sect of Judaism, that latter went to the gentiles, but because it is so large of a sect, it is considered a religion in and of itself. So as far a Jewish memory is concerned you are probably refering to the non-messiah accepting portion of Judaism.

The good news is that one day God will once again reveal Jesus as Messiah to the non-believing Jews and as it is written:

And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn. (Zech. 12:10)

Jesus was pierced for our (Jew and gentile) transgressions! Will you look upon him? No, maybe not because the veil may still be upon your eyes. The same veil that was put upon the face of Moses because the people did not want to see the glory of God radiating from his face. The same as the veil that was between the inter part of the temple and the holy of holies. This same veil was rent in two at the death of the Messiah, opening a way to the holy of holies, without the requirements of the law, but only the acceptance of the work of Jesus Messiah on the cross as the ultimate sacrifice to attone for our sins.

Even Paul had as it were coverings that came off his eyes, while Jesus met him on the way to Damascus. He then saw Jesus as the Messiah. So, one day all Jews will have this blindness to the righteousness of Jesus Messiah removed and they will accept him and weep for him.

Arrogant and what more can I say? It was a knife because you caused the DEATH of thousands of Jewish people and exiled them from your countries when they wouldn't convert.

Death and more death and destruction.... Forget the heart and Jesus and what you believe.

Christianity is an arrogant religion that cares not one bit for the people it hurts in the process of its missionary work.
 
Old 03-23-2010, 01:35 PM
 
Location: Texas
32,715 posts, read 17,791,801 times
Reputation: 18803
Quote:
Originally Posted by Runemaster View Post
I think you may be confusing Christianity with the perversions of it found in "denominations". Currently, Christian churches are growing like wildfire in the United States and abroad, while Catholicism and the others are falling off.

Prove it.
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