U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Happy Easter!
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Closed Thread Start New Thread
 
Old 03-22-2010, 01:11 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
30,038 posts, read 30,695,423 times
Reputation: 12214

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Runemaster View Post
But I have. And I've yet to find anything that proves the bible untrue. Sure there are theories, circumstantial evidence, etc, but there's also plenty of that for it.

In the end, we'll all believe what we want, as belief hinges greatly on our point of view and personal experience. But, if you believed you could save lives, what sort of person would you be if you didn't even try?
The problem is that if you look at history, the spread of Christianity has destroyed far more lives than it has saved.

 
Old 03-22-2010, 01:18 PM
 
Location: Valencia, Spain
13,892 posts, read 9,665,267 times
Reputation: 2401
Quote:
Originally Posted by Runemaster View Post

Do you have an answer for my question posed to you?

"If you believed you could save lives, what sort of person would you be if you didn't even try?"
If I believed that strapping a bomb to myself and detonating it in a crowded market was sending my victims to a better life in the arms of Allah, what sort of person would I be if I didn't do so.
 
Old 03-22-2010, 02:25 PM
 
Location: Log home in the Appalachians
10,494 posts, read 10,075,480 times
Reputation: 6838
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikk View Post
Becuase us Christians are told by our creator Jesus Christ that we must go into all nations preaching the gospel (good news of Jesus), making disciples and baptizing them in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. You can believe what you believe, but our beliefs are not yours! We believe we must spread the gospel.
Nikk, and therein lies the problem, your belief tells you that you must go about trying to change others' beliefs to yours and we do not wish to become part of your belief, we don't try to force our beliefs on you and we do not want you to try to force your beliefs on us, it's called respect for each other's belief and culture. This brings to mind the quotes of two well respected native people:

We do not want schools... they will teach us to have churches. We do not want churches.... they will teach us to quarrel about the Creator... we do not want to learn that. We may quarrel with men sometimes about things on this earth, but we never quarrel about the Creator, we do not want to learn that. Heinmot Tooyalaket,(Chief Joseph) Nez Perce.

Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book? Sogoyewapha,(Red Jacket) Senaca.

Last edited by ptsum; 03-22-2010 at 02:51 PM..
 
Old 03-22-2010, 02:31 PM
 
458 posts, read 648,084 times
Reputation: 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by ptsum View Post

why do you white people differ so much about it?
???
White?
 
Old 03-22-2010, 02:43 PM
 
458 posts, read 648,084 times
Reputation: 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by Runemaster View Post
Everyone who has beliefs, one way or another, always seems to be so very confident that what they believe is true. But that begs the question, (since we're all flawed humans who make mistakes daily):

What if you're wrong?

For me, as Christ Follower, if I'm wrong, I simply take a dirt nap when I die and that's that. In the days when I was a card carrying agnostic, I would have missed out on far more...

So, what happens if you're wrong?


Disclaimer: this isn't intended to start a flame war or illicit angry responses. if reading anything in this thread entices you to post in anger or with the intent to flame anyone, please walk away and find a more constructive outlet for your energy. Thanks!
What if I'm wrong

If I'm wrong then I will be sent to a lake of fire to burn by an all loving god.

If I'm wrong I will be punished for not believing in a god who believes in me.

If I'm wrong I will suffer without salvation to a god who offers salvation.

It sound silly like that doesn't it.
 
Old 03-22-2010, 02:49 PM
 
Location: Log home in the Appalachians
10,494 posts, read 10,075,480 times
Reputation: 6838
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmikeman View Post
???
White?
It is written the way it was quoted,not my words.
 
Old 03-22-2010, 02:56 PM
 
Location: Portland, OR
1,082 posts, read 2,034,669 times
Reputation: 1260
Quote:
Originally Posted by Runemaster View Post
Everyone who has beliefs, one way or another, always seems to be so very confident that what they believe is true. But that begs the question, (since we're all flawed humans who make mistakes daily):

What if you're wrong?
I'll say, "Well, I have to admit it: I was wrong. It was an honest mistake, based on my life experiences, the information at hand, and the way my brain processed that information. I did my best to live a good life. But since you created me, and you're omniscient, you already know that." If God condemns me to hell based on that, I suppose eternal torment would suck (there's really no getting around that), but I have to wonder: would you trust a God who is that cruel, petty, and vindictive to let you stay in heaven for all eternity just because you worshiped him for a few short years? Such a God likely would say, "Yeah, I know I promised eternal life in heaven, but I've changed my mind. You annoy me. Off to hell with you!"

First you have to decide for yourself the likelihood that there is a God. If you conclude that there is, then you have decide whether that God is an anthropomorphic being who monitors and sometimes intervenes in the daily affars of humans, as opposed to being something exponentially more complex and inscrutable. If you conclude that God is anthropomorphic, then you have to decide whether he is a God of love who would never condemn anyone to hell, or a just God who only condemns people like Adolf Hitler and Charles Manson to hell, or a petty bureaucrat who condemns people to hell simply because they didn't come to the right conclusion about his existence with the mental apparatus that he gave them.

The likelihood of the last scenario seems so remote to me that it isn't worth structuring my life (which is the only thing I know I have) around it or worrying about it. And as others have said, belief isn't a choice. An omniscient God would know I was just going through the motions of worship, and if he is indeed the petty bureaucrat of my last scenario, he'd probably send me to hell for not truly believing in him. In that case, I would have wasted a lot of time in my life doing things I didn't believe in, as well as having to spend eternity in hell.

So if I'm wrong, I'm wrong, and in all likelihood, I'll simply get on with a good afterlife.
 
Old 03-22-2010, 04:17 PM
 
Location: Cypress, TX
587 posts, read 1,199,593 times
Reputation: 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafius View Post
Ah I see! So the lady that tells others "But if you REALLY study this, I mean really, you would see evidential facts backup up the bible"....hasn't really practised what she is preaching eh?
Personally, no, I haven't done the legwork myself and I will readily admit that. I've never claimed to be a scholar. BUT, I do believe there are others who have really researched it and found that the bible cannot be proven as rubbish. It is a historical document on its own and I have never seen any kind of proof to the contrary.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ptsum View Post
Nikk, and therein lies the problem, your belief tells you that you must go about trying to change others' beliefs to yours and we do not wish to become part of your belief, we don't try to force our beliefs on you and we do not want you to try to force your beliefs on us, it's called respect for each other's belief and culture.
I guess I just don't understand the use of the term "forcing"? I haven't seen anyone trying force their beliefs on anyone (in this thread or even in my church, etc.). I see people trying to "share" the good news. If they choose to reject it, there's really not much else to be done as we all have free will and I believe that most people do respect that. I would never try and force my beliefs on anyone (what good would that do anyway, as that would really turn people away, in my opinion), but I will pray for them and their eventual salvation.

I know I already mentioned it, but in case there is anyone here who isn't familiar with it, here's a link to the video by Penn Gillette when he gets the gift of a bible after a show and his response. This seems far more reasonable of a response from an athiest who respects people trying to do something nice.


YouTube - Penn Gillette gets a gift of a Bible
 
Old 03-22-2010, 05:10 PM
 
458 posts, read 648,084 times
Reputation: 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by ptsum View Post
It is written the way it was quoted,not my words.
No biggy, I just found that to be odd.
 
Old 03-22-2010, 06:53 PM
 
4,083 posts, read 4,299,884 times
Reputation: 806
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikk View Post
Becuase us Christians are told by our creator Jesus Christ that we must go into all nations preaching the gospel (good news of Jesus), making disciples and baptizing them in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. You can believe what you believe, but our beliefs are not yours! We believe we must spread the gospel.

And that is why I keep getting my dinner interrupted......Good grief maybe I need to put a sign up saying no Christian allowed.....Because I have a religion...lololololololol and I don't need yours.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Closed Thread

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top