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I know that they do not care about me or anyone else like me who is not a Christian because all we are is a soul to save so they can get to heaven.
And anyone who teaches that, or tells you it's true is wrong. You don't get into Heaven by saving souls. You get into Heaven by putting your faith in Christ Jesus. Grace cannot be earned, but it can be lost.
I care about you. I'm sad that you seem to be hurting. It burdens my heart that have been injured by people who have fallen prey to the one who "prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour." And, I've prayed in the last five minutes that you experience some healing from those wounds.
question for nikk and intmd8tr: if your philosophy and religion is connected to the same christianity and christians that did do these evils in the past then how can you trust what was handed down bye the very same people youve branded as evil-even right back to emperor constantine who was ment to have changed and removed whole books from the bible to suit his own political power
Again, for me, it comes back to the evil hearts of men, not our perfect and holy God. We are ALL sinful in nature.
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Originally Posted by dobeable
love of God can be accheived but you have to know His charachter which IS love- infact their is no limit to His love, He loves everbody christians,muslims,hindus even atheist( yeah thats right lads even yous who refuse to beleive in him) and He wouldnt watch His children burn in hell for eternity i wouldnt even allow that to happen to anyone and im only human,yous only wnt Him because yas are afraid to go to Hell but maybe this eternal hell was missinterpreted deliberatly to control the people to make sure they didnt go against the church.
I agree with most of this. God IS love and yes, he loves EVERYONE. However, a common misconception is that he hurls people into hell, when in fact, he offers each and every one of us a way out. He doesn't WANT anyone going to hell because he loves us all. But some people unfortunately do choose that route, simply by rejecting the love and salvation from our Lord Jesus Christ.
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Originally Posted by Rafius
How can a "god" die? How can you kill a god?
God so loved the world that he was born as a man, he died in the flesh, but was raised 3 days later. For him to give up his throne in Heaven and live as man, with our temptations and sorrows, to ultimately be crucified for OUR sins, is incredible love to me. He CHOSE to be killed as the ultimate and perfect sacrifice.
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Originally Posted by Jazzymom
I see in the modern world liberal Christians do good, but you cannot say in history Christians have caused much of the violence. In the modern world fundementalist and evangelical Christians are still causing problems where they missionize. Africa is the most recent place that they have set their sights on and now we have Africans killing children because they think they are witches and they take the bible literally when it says to kill witches. So you can keep your bible and your verses and your religion because it historically has done more harm then good.
I don't think that any could argue that a lot of violence has been in the world by ALL people, including Christians. But it's not the bible that has done more harm than good, it's people's interpretations, and unfortunately our hearts are sinful. Power is something that can horribly corrupt and that's something that's been seen throughout history.
If there are people currently killing children in Africa, they are NOT teaching to entire gospel of Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ died to REMOVE the old law of Moses, which is the old testament. We are no longer saved by works, but by grace. You cannot take the bible out of context; it's entirety is necessary to realize the message of love. If there are people killing children FOR ANYTHING, they are not doing it because that is what God desires.
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Originally Posted by Jazzymom
Christianity is being painted with a broad brush because it has caused the most damage with Islam coming in 2nd. When religions believe they have the only truth and they need to "save" you then that becomes the goal.
Christians are not respected in many areas because of their behavior. There are Christians on this board who still refuse to accept the harm done in the name of their religion. I have much respect for the Christianity of my parents and of the liberal Christians I know. I have no respect for the fundamentalists and evangelicals out there. I know that they do not care about me or anyone else like me who is not a Christian because all we are is a soul to save so they can get to heaven.
God may not have taught violence but Christians have been historically a very violent religion. That is a historical fact. As soon as Christianity became a legal religion then life my everyone who was not a Christian changed for the worse.
I don't disagree with a lot of what you're saying here. Making something a "legal" religion makes it akin to government. And there you get the whole "absolute power corrupts absolutely". A lot of damage has historically been done, there is no question. But if Christians today realize that is not what God intended and do not live their lives the same way, are they not worthy of respect? Should we be lumped in with those of the past who bear no resemblance to us today?
I am thankful that today, there are many new churches rising up who teach the bible in its entirety and nothing that isn't there. Many people are given the opportunity to hear about the love Jesus has for them and are passing it along to others.
They pick and choose from their old testament. If its not something they want to follow they say its the old covenant and has nothing to do with them because they have a "new" covenant. They only use the old testament to prove the new testament. They can't completely get rid of it because to do so would mean they have no so called proof of the foretelling of their messiah.
Again, for me, it comes back to the evil hearts of men, not our perfect and holy God. We are ALL sinful in nature.
Gee, since we are supposedly made in the image of this god of yours, wouldn't that mean the it is a sinner also? Thus not the perfect entity you claim? And less deserving of any worship what so ever?
Gee, since we are supposedly made in the image of this god of yours, wouldn't that mean the it is a sinner also? Thus not the perfect entity you claim? And less deserving of any worship what so ever?
Sure seems like it, with all the spin removed.
No spin, it is just your ignorance of scripture. It is written "by one man sin entered into the world..." That man being Adam. So, Adam (Adam and Eve) were made in the image of God. God gave man freewill and man chose to disobey God. This sin of disobedience gave us this sinful nature.
God however is pure and holy and deserving of worship, even though he does not need worship. It is written "As for God his ways are perfect". His word is perfect.
The Christian dose not need to condemn homosexuals. The homosexual is not under grace and is therefore condemned by the Law. But if they accept Christ as their Lord and Savior and turn from their sin, then there is no condemnation.
It is written: "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." (Romans 8:1)
The Christian dose not need to condemn homosexuals. The homosexual is not under grace and is therefore condemned by the Law. But if they accept Christ as their Lord and Savior and turn from their sin, then there is no condemnation.
It is written: "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." (Romans 8:1)
So, to be clear, Heaven will have Christian Gay Pride Parades?
NIKK my friend: I'm thinking you may have missed my request to you in post #124. or, are you just ignoring it?
Back on that same page, mmm...mabeynot asked, in post #126, why we atheists show up everywhere and comment. Apparently with unwelcome, unsolicited commentary. Well, we show up "everywhere" there's a debate or the thin possibility of a truly open-minded exchange as to the realities of God and Christianity. You know, to test it as something beyond a philosophy without utility. Because most of us have, indeed, been past-theists.
We didn't come to our current well-argued positions absent some critical thinking, unanswered questions from our ministers, or that seminal moment in Sunday School when you look at the pleasant but uninspired "Miss Jones" who is gooey-babbling all that nonsense stuff as she hands out truly impossibly silly comic books showing Noah actually leading two of everything, especially those mandatory giraffes, onto a too-small barge. A light certainly went on in my head back then, and apparently, in others' as well.
But then, when we do show up here, we find that although we have given time and consideration to the problems with any mandated and formalized spirituality system, there's simply too many rules that contravene and contradict each other! The organization of it all is staggering, and leads to obvious problems. So, we're simply here to help is all!
Many things are stated by devout Christians. If they kept it to themselves, all huddled down at their church and talking of and to themselves, no-one would notice or want to be involved. But a basic tenet of the Christian religion is to go forth and proselytize. It's sold to the members (who as a rule generally do not question others' thinking) as an example of loving thy neighbor, and simply wanting to "save" him and show her the way to a good, Godly life. And to welcome them into the brotherhood of life and love of their church (and which, Oh BTW, always needs new congregation members).
In fact, the topmost organizers of Christianity see the obvious necessity to extend their power over others' lives to as many people as possible, to contain and grow the flock. Why? For one thing, it's the flock that tithes.
My wife's church pastor recently announced that there would have to be cutbacks in various church functions due to a significant drop in the congregation numbers, coupled with a drop in weekly donations and tithes resulting from our current economic problems. Which ain't going away any time soon, I'm betting. Yep, even if we force prayer back into our schools, and stop abortion!
And for another, up-to-date knowledge and common sense amongst the masses is anathema, and MUST be dominated. This was more than convincingly demonstrated in The Spanish Inquisition, the Salem witch hunts, the various punishments meted out if a congregation member is disobedient or downright defiant and traditional Christian obedience training.
Heaven help the critical thinker.!
So, Christians show up on this public forum, and make their assumptive and absolutist statements. They then couple those with rampant denialism on scientific topics.
As a philosophical alternative, mmm, why didn't you say: "I appreciate that you are willing to come here and examine both ours' and your philosophies, to compare and contrast them, and to share the reasons you left our loving church."
Instead, by your tone, I'd say you'd like to have us debating and argumentative atheists excused, to have us "leave the room" here, as you did in Spain, etc. And just as several deep-in-the-mire US state school-boards are now trying to accomplish in their efforts to mandate Christian religious studies IN PLACE OF science's knowledge.
The wholesale suppression of knowledge: now that's worth fighting, don't you agree? The US is already ranked 21st globally in the achievement of scientific knowledge by our school kids, and yet we're supposed to be the technological ideas hot-house! Those relentless acts of academic suppression by the church surely won't improve that ugly statistic.
So I'm afraid you'll just have to abide our commentary. It's just our way of showing concern for the preservation and advancement of our species. Well, at least the H.sapiensskepticalus sub-species. Don't worry though; that will soon enough become the dominant species, absent another Inquisition....
No spin, it is just your ignorance of scripture. It is written "by one man sin entered into the world..." That man being Adam. So, Adam (Adam and Eve) were made in the image of God. God gave man freewill and man chose to disobey God. This sin of disobedience gave us this sinful nature.
God however is pure and holy and deserving of worship, even though he does not need worship. It is written "As for God his ways are perfect". His word is perfect.
Bull. You have nothing but spin and an attempt at justification for the actions and creations of what you call "god".
In truth, you have no truth and have to rely on myth and interpretation of events that did not even happen.
BTW, nice assumption that no one but you could possibly know scripture. It lends credence to your ignorance.
Personally, I was in seminary for two years before confirming it was BS.
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Yo, NIKK... Oh, and also mmm...mabeynot.
