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And the rod, of course. My Father believed in physical discipline, and I'm glad he did. Because that teaches a child that there are consequences for our actions. If we are constantly showing grace, then the real world is going to be a VERY difficult place for our children.
Because the world will not be as gracious as the father who keeps his belt on. Or the mother who says, "ok, one more chance".
I was flipping around the channels last night, and stopped on that nanny show. It took 2 and a half hours to get the kid to sit in the "naughty seat". The kid kept kicking and hitting her own mother!!!
...My soul.
That whole 2 and a half hours could have been reduced to a few seconds of Godly discipline. There's a reason God implemented His plan the way that He did, no?
But when we try to adjust it, or throw in our own Benjamin Spock methods (whose own kids went haywire, might I add), our children suffer.
That little girl on the TV last night will never understand that there are consequences for her actions. She will, unless there is a change, always believe that there are 2 and a half hours of grace, so to speak.
And there's not.
So the next time we're trying to find a way to discipline our kids without physical means, let us remember -- God, the God of the Universe, who set this world in its very order, arranged a method of discipline.
Very often your hear about parents who are extreme disciplinarians and beat their children such as the father of Adolf Hitler, we all know that he turned out. Prisons are full of people whose parents went overboard with the discipline and it twisted their thinking. Of course we're talking about a more reasonable approach on this thread but I thought I'd throw out that thought. My parents never laid a hand on myself and my sisters and we all turned out just fine (no smart remarks). I couldn't count how many times I've been in supermarkets and other public places and seen parents go a little overboard with the spanking or slapping. I just have a feeling that any sort of physical discipline can get out of control and lead to problems that are more serious than an unruly child.
I think spanking a child in public is completly unneccesary as well. If my post sounded like I was beat, I wasnt, but a child needs to know there are serious consequesnes to going over boundries a parent sets. and you can do that in a loving way.
I am an only child and my parents did not spare the rod either. I, too, was more afraid of the consequences of bad actions from my parents than I was of anyone else.
Now, regarding this fear, it was not a fear of my parents, I knew they loved me dearly, it showed in everything they did with me and for me. I did not go around all day in fear of them.
When I say I was afraid of what dicipline they would do, it means that I knew that if I went out on a drunken rampage like the rest of my friends did, my father would come get me and whip the tar out of me. I respected the fact that punishment would come about from actions taken by me that were not right.
Many of my friends parents did this other type of parenting, and honestly, these kids ( although when I was young I thought they were the coolest) grew up into adults who truly amaze me. Some cannot keep a job they stay so drunk, others have taught their own children that it is ok to not respect their elders, and is completely ok to let them know this as well. The lack of respect I see in our school from these kids to teachers and coaches is simply amazing. Everything is centered around these kids, they think the world owes them something. And these are our future leaders?
Zap me if you will, my children know there is a line that can be crossed with dh and myself. If that line is crossed, they will be spanked. I do not condone beating a child, and never have done that. I also let this child know why they are being punished and try to get them to understand how they should have acted in the particular situation.
I have been told that my children are very well mannered and respectful when they are visiting other homes.
Some of my children's friends are downright insulting and have smart little rejoinders if I say something to them. THese children do not get invited back to my home and I explain to my kids why and how these actions will hurt their friends when they grow older
I have a child almost 20 now. He was brought up strict as far as who he went out with (friends here not girlfriends) and where they went and what parties he could attend so on and on. He resented me and the fact that I kept him from having a 'social' life. Right after graduation, he moved out, broke my heart.
He became involved with these so-called popular people, lived like a homeless person, stayed out till all hours with his friends, doing whatever. When he deemed a visit home was needed, it was usually because he wanted something, and it simply broke my heart. I asked him, Son, why are you living this way? Why have you thrown your future all away? I could see the sadness in his eyes, and knew he was not happy, but he was too prideful to say anything. I told him again of my love for him and the prodical son in the Bible. He was picked up on a DUI not long before this, and had bailed himself out of jail, so now had no license to driive on, and no vehicle since he had torn up the one he had.
He told me he wanted out of this lifestyle he had gotten into, but didn't know how, and he didn't want us to say I told you so. I simply loved him, and told him that pride was the downfall of many. I also told him that the home we had gotten him when he graduated was still there waiting on him to come to it. He did, and was doing so much better, but these so called friends would not leave him alone, leached off him and he ended up with another DUI just after getting a new vehicle. He was weeks away from starting college and had just got a decent girlfriend. He was devestated, I was devestated. It was the day before Easter when he was arrested. He called us, and told us that he needed help, not so much from drinking cause he didn't do that unless these friends were there, he said he felt as if he had to do this so he could be their friend. Long story short, he is in a christian rehab and doing very good. He has learned that he does not need to do anything but be himself to have friends.
My point in this long post was to say that he was brought up knowing right from wrong, and Godly values. Yes, he strayed, but these values convicted him and brought him back home to us.
These so called friends, some are in the penetitary (sp); others are strung out so bad they are pitiful, others are still out here, party hearty every day. Their parents wonder what happened to them and why they didn't get jobs, stay in school etc.
I am raising my younger son with the same principals as my older one. My younger son has seen the mistakes his older brother has made, and actually, the oldest is telling the younger one to NOT follow the path he did, and to realize we tell him things he can't do out of love.
Although, mine strayed, he came back to us, I would like to think his upbringing had a major role to play in this. And let me point out, we did not spank our kids every day. It was only used as a last resort, and was thought of as THE BAD PUNISHMENT and they did not get many spankings. Can't remember the last one my youngest has gotten. We believe in treating our children as people, and tell them why we feel this way or that way about something, and use this as a teaching tool, they have really done well with this, but have on occassion have had to get spankings. So, although we do, it is rare and only only when really necessary. I think both my kids are remarkable young men who will someday be remarkable adults and hopefully the values I instilled in them will help them with their children.
Of course, you can get some desired results from fear....but, that doesn't mean that's the best way to go.
Persoanlly, i've never liked "the ends justifying the means" approach in any situation.
Fear is the greatest preserver of life on the planet. Without fear, we would do many more unhealthy things than we do.
That said, it is also unhealthy to live in too much fear. All things in moderation is the key. Too much is as bad as too little. I suppose for a balanced approach that also means too little is as bad as too much.
I was raised in the 60-70's and experienced much of the new philosophies of child rearing first hand. My parents went threw the Dr. Spock phase, the relaxed "no limits" phase and even attempted the logical approach of conversational limits and then timeouts. I do not recall any of these approaches having any significant impact upon my behavior. When my father came back to God and started employing physical discipline, it likewise had no significant impact upon my behavior. I was already at the point that if I felt it was worth the punishment, I did it.
What was the defining guidance for me was his approval. When he was proud of me, I was proud of myself. That training has proven more beneficial to me that anything else. I can honestly state that without the physical discipline, however, I would not have understood the depths of his disappointment in me as well as I did when I had misbehaved. Timeouts and grounding were actions taken by parents who did not want to waste time on parenting and needed an easy, quick fix to discipline. Conversational discipline was only good in those instances were mild correction was needed. In those exceptional times when I really got out of hand, the belt or a switch was an instant acknowlegement of the level of misbehavior and the depth of his disapproval.
I never felt beaten, and in fact knew a couple kids who were and was never in any danger of that myself, but I did recognize how far out of line I was at those times.
And the rod, of course. My Father believed in physical discipline, and I'm glad he did. Because that teaches a child that there are consequences for our actions. If we are constantly showing grace, then the real world is going to be a VERY difficult place for our children.
Because the world will not be as gracious as the father who keeps his belt on. Or the mother who says, "ok, one more chance".
I was flipping around the channels last night, and stopped on that nanny show. It took 2 and a half hours to get the kid to sit in the "naughty seat". The kid kept kicking and hitting her own mother!!!
...My soul.
That whole 2 and a half hours could have been reduced to a few seconds of Godly discipline. There's a reason God implemented His plan the way that He did, no?
But when we try to adjust it, or throw in our own Benjamin Spock methods (whose own kids went haywire, might I add), our children suffer.
That little girl on the TV last night will never understand that there are consequences for her actions. She will, unless there is a change, always believe that there are 2 and a half hours of grace, so to speak.
And there's not.
So the next time we're trying to find a way to discipline our kids without physical means, let us remember -- God, the God of the Universe, who set this world in its very order, arranged a method of discipline.
Who are we to disagree with God?
Thanks for reading, friend.
good post...if my dad had been the nanny, it would have taken um less than a minute.
I think we have to be very careful to to be self-aware and to distinguish between our reasons for physical punishment. Too often we spank because we are angry, and it's an outlet for our own anger and frustrations. I don't think that's right. The child has no way of protecting himself/herself against that. Whether the spanking is deserved or not, that's the wrong time to do it. I've seen too much of that, and it can do a lot of damage emotionally.
I think we have to be very careful to to be self-aware and to distinguish between our reasons for physical punishment. Too often we spank because we are angry, and it's an outlet for our own anger and frustrations. I don't think that's right. The child has no way of protecting himself/herself against that. Whether the spanking is deserved or not, that's the wrong time to do it. I've seen too much of that, and it can do a lot of damage emotionally.
I totally agree with as well. I have seen this happen and it shows in the child, they are timid, apprehensive and do not trust adults.
I also do not believe that spanking should be a public affair. For one, it humilates the child and that is not the intent, or should not be the intent of the parent.
Just a little note on what I am learning in terms of disciplining my children.
I want to look at my desired results. Is it "just" to stop bad behaviour? Then a quick spank and I am finished and can walk away.
But is that really ALL there is to discipline? Discipline means all of the below things:
Main Entry: 1dis·ci·pline
Pronunciation: 'di-s&-pl&n
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French & Latin; Anglo-French, from Latin disciplina teaching, learning, from discipulus pupil
1 : PUNISHMENT
2 obsolete : INSTRUCTION
3 : a field of study
4 : training that corrects, molds, or perfects the mental faculties or moral character
5 a : control gained by enforcing obedience or order b : orderly or prescribed conduct or pattern of behavior c : SELF-CONTROL
6 : a rule or system of rules governing conduct or activity
- dis·ci·plin·al /-pl&-n&l/ adjective
Yes, it can be a form of punishement, but it also should be a molding of character. What character do I wish my children to have?
For me, I want to develop in myself some more discipline.....discipline of reading scripture more, seeking God's heart more, eating more healthily, exercising more regularly, etc...
WHY? Because these disciplines produce character in me that I hope to have to honor the Lord.
Now, back to children......punishment has its place for things like disobedience, etc....but I also want my children to develop character. I want them to do the right thing even if noone is looking. I want them to know that God is looking and He has commanded us to develop the character of Christ.
This is more than a punishment issue often times. It is also a heart issue. God desires obedience and a pure heart. It is our job as parents to teach them the way in that.
This is a very contraversial subject. I had several posters that I was planning to quote and respond individually to, but then that seemed fruitless. I think that this is one of those issues where we are going to have to agree to disagree.
As for my personal means of disapline (is that correct spelling, my brain seems to have stopped functioning, it doesn't look right, but I can't seem to come up with anything else.) Anyway, we do use a paddle in our house. We also use time out and when it seems appropriate, we take away a priviledge. Each act is treated individually. I have 5 children and it is amazing to me how they are each their own person. I read somewhere that when there are only one or two children in a household that they seem to take on one of the parents personality types, but that when there are several, they all seem to develop their own personalities. And, boy, do mine each have their own!!! And as far as disapline in public...I think that if you want to spank a child, you should take them to a bathroom. I have never had to do this, the only times that I have had any trouble with mine in public, I took them outside and had a firm discussion on how I was going to beat their butts if they did not straighten up. This always seems to work. I will also say that this is a very hard situation for parents (I guess, speaking for myself). I try very hard not to judge another parent while in public on the way that they handle their child. You will always get two sides to the story, as this thread clearly indicates. There will always be those parents/adults that are looking at you thinking, "Good Lord, will you just beat the kids already" and there are those that are thinking, "oh, what a terrible parent for spanking that child.". I have gotten all the looks. I have even had some address me directly, to which I have replied that I would be more than willing to allow my children to sit at there table while I enjoyed a quiet meal. (it always seems to happen in a restaurant).
Dear brethren and sisters, you that are parents of children, I beg of you, as you love your children, and desire their salvation, that you wake up to this important duty of governing your children, and subdue their wills and unholy temper, and bring them where God can work for them. Unless you do, you will certainly see your children cut down in the time of trouble. Oh! what anguish it will cause parents, to witness the "plagues" poured out upon their children, and realize that it is because they have neglected their duty to them.
Let me tell you from personal experience that there must be balance to everything. My parents were not physically abusive, but they did spank our butts when needed. I firmly believe in doing so when needed, as long as it's not excessive and is coupled with lots of love.
My parents did everything by the Word. They were very strict with us. No non-Christian friends, music, schools, ect. My dad used to say, "Brainwash your children with the Word of God!"
And this is where I draw the line.
The result of all of this strictness was not what they expected. My sister and I went through YEARS of backsliding after becoming adults before finally coming back "home". It was a very long and hard road for our family. My parents couldn't understand what they did wrong!
As their child, I can tell you. Everyone must accept Christ as their PERSONAL Lord and Savior. Even though Jesus was very real to me, when I got out from under my parent's wing I realized the world was a very big place. Things were not always as they seemed back when I lived in the Christian Bubble I was raised in. And I realized...I had been brainwashed! I had never thought for myself. This led to years of anguish before I came to God on MY OWN TERMS...not on the path laid out for me by others.
My sister and I were both always well behaved, even when backslid. This is because my parents DID create bounderies, and they DID spank our butts when needed. I believe in that. But you can't brainwash someone into a personal relationship with God.
As far as subduing wills? Be carefull with that too. I also found as I became an adult that I had no personal opinion about anything, because I had never thought for myself, or made choices for myself.
God doesn't want robots, or he would have made robots!
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). I couldn't count how many times I've been in supermarkets and other public places and seen parents go a little overboard with the spanking or slapping. I just have a feeling that any sort of physical discipline can get out of control and lead to problems that are more serious than an unruly child.
) Anyway, we do use a paddle in our house. We also use time out and when it seems appropriate, we take away a priviledge. Each act is treated individually. I have 5 children and it is amazing to me how they are each their own person. I read somewhere that when there are only one or two children in a household that they seem to take on one of the parents personality types, but that when there are several, they all seem to develop their own personalities. And, boy, do mine each have their own!!! And as far as disapline in public...I think that if you want to spank a child, you should take them to a bathroom. I have never had to do this, the only times that I have had any trouble with mine in public, I took them outside and had a firm discussion on how I was going to beat their butts if they did not straighten up. This always seems to work. I will also say that this is a very hard situation for parents (I guess, speaking for myself). I try very hard not to judge another parent while in public on the way that they handle their child. You will always get two sides to the story, as this thread clearly indicates. There will always be those parents/adults that are looking at you thinking, "Good Lord, will you just beat the kids already" and there are those that are thinking, "oh, what a terrible parent for spanking that child.". I have gotten all the looks. I have even had some address me directly, to which I have replied that I would be more than willing to allow my children to sit at there table while I enjoyed a quiet meal. (it always seems to happen in a restaurant).
Balance to everything...
