Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 06-05-2007, 04:34 PM
 
Location: Nashville, Tn
7,915 posts, read 18,597,697 times
Reputation: 5524

Advertisements

It's said that satan was an angel at some point in the past until he had some serious behavioral issues and God had to throw him out. Now it seems that satan has a larger force of evil entities than just himself and that would include demons and possibly other forces of evil. I've never heard of angels having any subordinates or lesser beings who report directly to them so I'm wondering where satan got his helpers. It almost seems like satan is considered to be an equal of God in the sense that one represents good and the other represents evil. So a common angel gets kicked out of heaven but then goes on to become satan. It appears like he's getting a sort of promotion because now he's the top ranking entity who's opposing God and he even has an army of demonic forces to back him up. Can anyone explain this to me?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 06-05-2007, 04:59 PM
 
Location: Maine
22,891 posts, read 28,167,543 times
Reputation: 31112
Revelation 12:3-4 is generally understood to be a metaphoric retelling of the fall of Lucifer:

3 ...a great red dragon having seven heads and ten horns, and on his heads were seven diadems.

4 And his tail swept away a third of the stars of heaven and threw them to the earth ...


A third of the angels followed Lucifer into his rebellion. This is generally accepted as the origin of demonic entities.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-05-2007, 05:02 PM
 
Location: Morrisville, North Carolina
465 posts, read 2,423,839 times
Reputation: 384
The demons are all the angels that sided with him against Jesus in heaven. When God through Satan (who's name at that time was Lucifer) out of heaven, certain angels choose to go with him; this is what makes up the forces of evil.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-05-2007, 05:33 PM
 
Location: Anywhere but here!
2,800 posts, read 9,996,218 times
Reputation: 1715
Mark S. summed it up pretty well...whether metaphorically or not

Yes a third of the angels sided with satan and thus became satan's demons...

Although I am sure there are better resources, it ishard to find a cut and dry explanation of how satan and his demons came about...but this article from wikipedia gives some good info!

Satan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-06-2007, 12:33 AM
 
Location: Seward, Alaska
2,741 posts, read 8,870,050 times
Reputation: 2023
Quote:
Originally Posted by MontanaGuy View Post
It's said that satan was an angel at some point in the past until he had some serious behavioral issues and God had to throw him out. Now it seems that satan has a larger force of evil entities than just himself and that would include demons and possibly other forces of evil. I've never heard of angels having any subordinates or lesser beings who report directly to them so I'm wondering where satan got his helpers. It almost seems like satan is considered to be an equal of God in the sense that one represents good and the other represents evil. So a common angel gets kicked out of heaven but then goes on to become satan. It appears like he's getting a sort of promotion because now he's the top ranking entity who's opposing God and he even has an army of demonic forces to back him up. Can anyone explain this to me?
Hey Montana: here's how I understand it to be:

Satan, demons, evil spirits, etc are all fallen angels. But they were not, and are not, all the same "rank"...the Bible says some have more authority than others. There is a hierarchy (ranking...like in the military):
Ephesians 6:12
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places"
So here we have three ranks: principalities, powers, and rulers in this passage. Here's another:
Colossians 1:16
"For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him". This adds thrones and dominions to the list, making at least 5. (I believe there is more)
There is likely more levels than this, but I think these pretty much cover the major ones here on earth. God's angels are also ranked, but since you are asking about satan and his angels, I won't go into that here...I think you get the idea.
I very much doubt that satan was a "common" angel, but likely was one of very high ranking before the fall (I don't know that for a fact...but to use common logic: why, if satan was a common "private", would all the corporals, sgts, lieutenants, colonels, and generals follow after him...to the tune of 1/3 of all the total angels in existance? Why would so many follow a "nobody"?) He apparently has authority over the other fallen angels...ie: he gives them "orders"...
You will find a ton of angel information if you do a Google search, but I don't know what the origin is for much of this info...it may, or may not be, correct, (?) so I try to stick to the Bible, rather than speculate.
How do we know some fallen angels (demons) are more powerful than others? Because Jesus said so. The Bible records an instance where Jesus' diciples tried to free a demon possessed person, but could not. So, they went to Jesus. Jesus said "this kind goeth not out, except by prayer and fasting..." Mark 9:28-30, Matthew 17:21
Well, that about sizes it up. We have a formidable enemy...but we're gonna win!

Bud
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-06-2007, 08:24 AM
 
Location: Nashville, Tn
7,915 posts, read 18,597,697 times
Reputation: 5524
Thanks for your responses but I do find all of this to be very far fetched. Then did God create all of these angels in the first place like he did humans or where did they come from? And that brings up another question, did all of this business with the fallen angels occur before God created man? I would think that in order to have a devil to tempt Adam and Eve that all of this would have already occurred.
Do any of you who are believers have a hard time accepting a story like this when you really sit down and think about it? For myself, it's completely outside of the realm of reality and I couldn't imagine just accepting it at face value. This is clearly mythology like the stories of Zeus.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-06-2007, 08:32 AM
 
Location: ARK-KIN-SAW
3,434 posts, read 9,731,417 times
Reputation: 1596
Quote:
Originally Posted by MontanaGuy View Post
Thanks for your responses but I do find all of this to be very far fetched. Then did God create all of these angels in the first place like he did humans or where did they come from? And that brings up another question, did all of this business with the fallen angels occur before God created man? I would think that in order to have a devil to tempt Adam and Eve that all of this would have already occurred.
Do any of you who are believers have a hard time accepting a story like this when you really sit down and think about it? For myself, it's completely outside of the realm of reality and I couldn't imagine just accepting it at face value. This is clearly mythology like the stories of Zeus.
I dont have a problem accepting it, heres the reason, and it too may sound far fetched to some. But when you arent a believer, you dont have the Holy Spirit to guide you thru scripture and reveal to you what things mean. By things I mean its hard to believe some things in the Bible without God and the Holy Spirits help, because I argee Montana, they do sound far fetched. But I do believe, for me, that what the Bible says happened, happened.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-06-2007, 08:33 AM
 
Location: God's Country
23,001 posts, read 34,321,507 times
Reputation: 31628
Quote:
Originally Posted by MontanaGuy View Post
Thanks for your responses but I do find all of this to be very far fetched. Then did God create all of these angels in the first place like he did humans or where did they come from? And that brings up another question, did all of this business with the fallen angels occur before God created man? I would think that in order to have a devil to tempt Adam and Eve that all of this would have already occurred.
Do any of you who are believers have a hard time accepting a story like this when you really sit down and think about it? For myself, it's completely outside of the realm of reality and I couldn't imagine just accepting it at face value. This is clearly mythology like the stories of Zeus.
I believe everything is created by God so yes I believe he created these fallen angles also. And I don't have any problem at all believing it because I believe the Bible is the Word of God and is true.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-06-2007, 08:41 AM
 
Location: Texas
8,672 posts, read 22,238,640 times
Reputation: 21369
Default Jesus

Yes, I would just add to what has already been said that yeah, I hear what you are saying, but if you read the gospels and realize that Jesus clearly believed in demonic realm, it becomes easier to understand and accept. Jesus was so "no nonsense" about everything. (Besides the fact that as a Christian, I can hardly afford to correct His theology!) I've said this before on this forum and I'll say it again, Jesus is quite a fascinating, unexpected character. When it comes from His mouth, it sounds reasonable. Does this make sense?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-06-2007, 09:57 AM
 
Location: Maine
22,891 posts, read 28,167,543 times
Reputation: 31112
Quote:
Originally Posted by MontanaGuy View Post
Then did God create all of these angels in the first place like he did humans or where did they come from?
Of course. If it exists, God made it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MontanaGuy View Post
And that brings up another question, did all of this business with the fallen angels occur before God created man?
Yep.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MontanaGuy View Post
This is clearly mythology like the stories of Zeus.
Sure. Only in this case, the mythology happens to be true.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:43 AM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top