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Old 06-05-2007, 04:34 PM
 
Location: Nashville, Tn
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It's said that satan was an angel at some point in the past until he had some serious behavioral issues and God had to throw him out. Now it seems that satan has a larger force of evil entities than just himself and that would include demons and possibly other forces of evil. I've never heard of angels having any subordinates or lesser beings who report directly to them so I'm wondering where satan got his helpers. It almost seems like satan is considered to be an equal of God in the sense that one represents good and the other represents evil. So a common angel gets kicked out of heaven but then goes on to become satan. It appears like he's getting a sort of promotion because now he's the top ranking entity who's opposing God and he even has an army of demonic forces to back him up. Can anyone explain this to me?
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Old 06-05-2007, 04:59 PM
 
Location: Maine
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Revelation 12:3-4 is generally understood to be a metaphoric retelling of the fall of Lucifer:

3 ...a great red dragon having seven heads and ten horns, and on his heads were seven diadems.

4 And his tail swept away a third of the stars of heaven and threw them to the earth ...


A third of the angels followed Lucifer into his rebellion. This is generally accepted as the origin of demonic entities.
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Old 06-05-2007, 05:02 PM
 
Location: Morrisville, North Carolina
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The demons are all the angels that sided with him against Jesus in heaven. When God through Satan (who's name at that time was Lucifer) out of heaven, certain angels choose to go with him; this is what makes up the forces of evil.
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Old 06-05-2007, 05:33 PM
 
Location: Anywhere but here!
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Mark S. summed it up pretty well...whether metaphorically or not

Yes a third of the angels sided with satan and thus became satan's demons...

Although I am sure there are better resources, it ishard to find a cut and dry explanation of how satan and his demons came about...but this article from wikipedia gives some good info!

Satan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 06-06-2007, 12:33 AM
 
Location: Seward, Alaska
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MontanaGuy View Post
It's said that satan was an angel at some point in the past until he had some serious behavioral issues and God had to throw him out. Now it seems that satan has a larger force of evil entities than just himself and that would include demons and possibly other forces of evil. I've never heard of angels having any subordinates or lesser beings who report directly to them so I'm wondering where satan got his helpers. It almost seems like satan is considered to be an equal of God in the sense that one represents good and the other represents evil. So a common angel gets kicked out of heaven but then goes on to become satan. It appears like he's getting a sort of promotion because now he's the top ranking entity who's opposing God and he even has an army of demonic forces to back him up. Can anyone explain this to me?
Hey Montana: here's how I understand it to be:

Satan, demons, evil spirits, etc are all fallen angels. But they were not, and are not, all the same "rank"...the Bible says some have more authority than others. There is a hierarchy (ranking...like in the military):
Ephesians 6:12
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places"
So here we have three ranks: principalities, powers, and rulers in this passage. Here's another:
Colossians 1:16
"For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him". This adds thrones and dominions to the list, making at least 5. (I believe there is more)
There is likely more levels than this, but I think these pretty much cover the major ones here on earth. God's angels are also ranked, but since you are asking about satan and his angels, I won't go into that here...I think you get the idea.
I very much doubt that satan was a "common" angel, but likely was one of very high ranking before the fall (I don't know that for a fact...but to use common logic: why, if satan was a common "private", would all the corporals, sgts, lieutenants, colonels, and generals follow after him...to the tune of 1/3 of all the total angels in existance? Why would so many follow a "nobody"?) He apparently has authority over the other fallen angels...ie: he gives them "orders"...
You will find a ton of angel information if you do a Google search, but I don't know what the origin is for much of this info...it may, or may not be, correct, (?) so I try to stick to the Bible, rather than speculate.
How do we know some fallen angels (demons) are more powerful than others? Because Jesus said so. The Bible records an instance where Jesus' diciples tried to free a demon possessed person, but could not. So, they went to Jesus. Jesus said "this kind goeth not out, except by prayer and fasting..." Mark 9:28-30, Matthew 17:21
Well, that about sizes it up. We have a formidable enemy...but we're gonna win!

Bud
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Old 06-06-2007, 08:24 AM
 
Location: Nashville, Tn
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Thanks for your responses but I do find all of this to be very far fetched. Then did God create all of these angels in the first place like he did humans or where did they come from? And that brings up another question, did all of this business with the fallen angels occur before God created man? I would think that in order to have a devil to tempt Adam and Eve that all of this would have already occurred.
Do any of you who are believers have a hard time accepting a story like this when you really sit down and think about it? For myself, it's completely outside of the realm of reality and I couldn't imagine just accepting it at face value. This is clearly mythology like the stories of Zeus.
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Old 06-06-2007, 08:32 AM
 
Location: ARK-KIN-SAW
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MontanaGuy View Post
Thanks for your responses but I do find all of this to be very far fetched. Then did God create all of these angels in the first place like he did humans or where did they come from? And that brings up another question, did all of this business with the fallen angels occur before God created man? I would think that in order to have a devil to tempt Adam and Eve that all of this would have already occurred.
Do any of you who are believers have a hard time accepting a story like this when you really sit down and think about it? For myself, it's completely outside of the realm of reality and I couldn't imagine just accepting it at face value. This is clearly mythology like the stories of Zeus.
I dont have a problem accepting it, heres the reason, and it too may sound far fetched to some. But when you arent a believer, you dont have the Holy Spirit to guide you thru scripture and reveal to you what things mean. By things I mean its hard to believe some things in the Bible without God and the Holy Spirits help, because I argee Montana, they do sound far fetched. But I do believe, for me, that what the Bible says happened, happened.
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Old 06-06-2007, 08:33 AM
 
Location: God's Country
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MontanaGuy View Post
Thanks for your responses but I do find all of this to be very far fetched. Then did God create all of these angels in the first place like he did humans or where did they come from? And that brings up another question, did all of this business with the fallen angels occur before God created man? I would think that in order to have a devil to tempt Adam and Eve that all of this would have already occurred.
Do any of you who are believers have a hard time accepting a story like this when you really sit down and think about it? For myself, it's completely outside of the realm of reality and I couldn't imagine just accepting it at face value. This is clearly mythology like the stories of Zeus.
I believe everything is created by God so yes I believe he created these fallen angles also. And I don't have any problem at all believing it because I believe the Bible is the Word of God and is true.
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Old 06-06-2007, 08:41 AM
 
Location: Texas
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Default Jesus

Yes, I would just add to what has already been said that yeah, I hear what you are saying, but if you read the gospels and realize that Jesus clearly believed in demonic realm, it becomes easier to understand and accept. Jesus was so "no nonsense" about everything. (Besides the fact that as a Christian, I can hardly afford to correct His theology!) I've said this before on this forum and I'll say it again, Jesus is quite a fascinating, unexpected character. When it comes from His mouth, it sounds reasonable. Does this make sense?
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Old 06-06-2007, 09:57 AM
 
Location: Maine
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MontanaGuy View Post
Then did God create all of these angels in the first place like he did humans or where did they come from?
Of course. If it exists, God made it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MontanaGuy View Post
And that brings up another question, did all of this business with the fallen angels occur before God created man?
Yep.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MontanaGuy View Post
This is clearly mythology like the stories of Zeus.
Sure. Only in this case, the mythology happens to be true.
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