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View Poll Results: would God punish His children forever
definitely 9 24.32%
never in an eternity would He 28 75.68%
Voters: 37. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 03-28-2010, 12:50 AM
 
Location: Richland, Washington
4,069 posts, read 4,964,260 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HalfNelson View Post
His LOVE is unconditional. Being allowed into His kingdom on the other hand is not. the only ones allowed in are those that want to be there. You don't don't even believe such a kingdom exists, so clearly you don't want to be there. Did you read my earlier post regarding hell? Much of Christianity has distorted what the Bible truly says about hell. If you truly live a life as you say that is morally good and upright according to your standards, than all you will miss out on will be that which you refused to believe existed. will you burn in an eternal torment for as long as the righteous exist in their bliss? No. The Bible makes clear that hellfire is temporary and only lasts long enough to consume sin/sinners in their entirety. The more heinous the sinner the longer it will take to consume them. Like I said some will go up like flash paper and others will burn like steel. None of this says that God does not love you. If a police officer has to arrest his son for being a drug dealer and murderer, does it mean he doesn't love his son? No. But his son made a series of choices and rejected all his father tried to teach him and in the end the officer had to watch his son suffer the death penalty. He still loved him but the son made his choice. Could he have let the son go? Sure, but that then only jeopardizes the lives of his other kids who have always followed their father.

let me ask you this. Hypothetically speaking, of course, what would you expect God to do if you are wrong and He does exist and you have chosen not to believe in Him or His law?
I'd expect him to show his love. Why is belief the only thing that matters? Why not love, compassion, honor and working for the betterment of humanity. I guess none of those things matter to god. As long as you believe they exist nothing else matters. Rapists, murderers and self serving psychopaths have a better chance at getting into heaven if they believe in god, but an atheist that lives a life of peace and harmony is automatically condemned because they didn't waste their time on an invisible man that didn't even bother to prove himself. I'd expect god to show compassion and look at ones actions rather than beliefs. Also, I'm better than god if the whole concept of hell or condemnation is true.
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Old 03-28-2010, 06:20 AM
 
354 posts, read 677,625 times
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what is wrong is judging God by your OWN perception/interpretation of the bible which ironically you say does not exist and a myth, respectively. how do u know your interpretation of the bible is indeed what it is, or even right? YOU decide it is right. but of course other people does not interpret it as that. our logic is different. that is a FACT. why do you think there are debates all over these forums. arguments, arguments arguments. you can argue until you die but your truth will always be false to someone. until you have peace on that truth, you will go around posting your truth and judgement on others and that is sad.
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Old 03-28-2010, 08:56 AM
 
1,838 posts, read 1,930,857 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HalfNelson View Post
No you are missing the point. God is Love and He does Love unconditionally. God does not however force you to love Him. That is the point I'm trying to get you to understand. Some people are so attached to sin that they hate God. God loves them so much that, as much as HE would like them to be in heaven with Him forever, they have chosen otherwise and so therefore they will suffer the destruction they have chosen. He will not force them to spend eternity with the God they hate so much, Heaven would be torture to them. Read my earlier post on what hell really is. These children He loves will not suffer torment forever, once they have received their punishment, they will simply cease to exist, as they have chosen that end for themselves against their God's desire.
question:
1-what about all the people who will never hear about Jesus?
2-what about all the people born before Jesus?
3-what about all the children that die before they can understand or hear about Jesus?
4-what about all the people born into different cultures?
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Old 03-28-2010, 03:18 PM
 
701 posts, read 658,071 times
Reputation: 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by dobeable View Post
question:
1-what about all the people who will never hear about Jesus?
2-what about all the people born before Jesus?
3-what about all the children that die before they can understand or hear about Jesus?
4-what about all the people born into different cultures?
Every person will be judge according to the knowledge they have. Once again it is all about choice. God knows what choice people make in their lives and He knows the motivation behind those choices. From the time Adam and Eve sinned people have been able to accept Christ. It was right at the fall of man that the sacrificial system was put in place and from that moment on it testified of Christ. People prior to Christ's death expressed their faith, that he would come and die for them, through the sacrificial system. God is love, but God is also Just. God will hold people accountable based on the knowledge they had and also the knowledge that was freely available, and offered to them. People who live in a society as religiously free and open as the USA, and have every opportunity to know and learn about God, will be held to a higher standard than someone born into a religiously oppressive society, who never had the opportunity to learn about Him.
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Old 03-28-2010, 03:36 PM
 
701 posts, read 658,071 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by agnostic soldier View Post
I'd expect him to show his love. Why is belief the only thing that matters? Why not love, compassion, honor and working for the betterment of humanity. I guess none of those things matter to god. As long as you believe they exist nothing else matters. Rapists, murderers and self serving psychopaths have a better chance at getting into heaven if they believe in god, but an atheist that lives a life of peace and harmony is automatically condemned because they didn't waste their time on an invisible man that didn't even bother to prove himself. I'd expect god to show compassion and look at ones actions rather than beliefs. Also, I'm better than god if the whole concept of hell or condemnation is true.
who ever said that those don't matter to God? I never did. Do rapists and murderers who believe in God, have a BETTER chance at getting into heaven than someone who CHOOSES not to believe He exists? Of course! You see the mere fact that they believe He exists, means that they can repent of their sins and seek forgiveness, they can stop murdering and raping and turn their life over to God. If you don't believe He exists, and think that YOU can determine what is morally right in the world, absent of anything God might have to say on the matter, then you will never feel the need to confess any sin to Him or seek any change in your life, heck you feel your life is morally free of any blemish. It's like asking who has a better chance of finding buried treasure, someone who believes it exists or someone who doesn't. there is always hope that the person that believes it exists will one day order his life around searching for it, but the person that refuses to believe it exists will never even begin searching. In order for the non-believer to find the treasure he would first need to choose to believe it exists. Many people that I've talked with, who don't believe in God, seem to have an attitude of "I don't believe in this treasure and I want no part in searching for it", but if the treasure is found they seem to feel "hey, why can't I have any of the treasure? that's not fair" They claim there was no proof of the treasure's existence so why should they be so dumb to look, but the one who placed the treasure will simply say "I gave enough "proof" for countless billions to find it. The same "proof" that led them to it was the same "proof" offered to you. You simply choose not believe it and that makes me sad because I wanted you to choose this treasure, but I could not force you to choose it."
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Old 03-28-2010, 04:02 PM
 
Location: Blankity-blank!
11,449 posts, read 13,911,504 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HalfNelson View Post
Every person will be judge according to the knowledge they have. Once again it is all about choice. God knows what choice people make in their lives and He knows the motivation behind those choices. From the time Adam and Eve sinned people have been able to accept Christ. It was right at the fall of man that the sacrificial system was put in place and from that moment on it testified of Christ. People prior to Christ's death expressed their faith, that he would come and die for them, through the sacrificial system. God is love, but God is also Just. God will hold people accountable based on the knowledge they had and also the knowledge that was freely available, and offered to them. People who live in a society as religiously free and open as the USA, and have every opportunity to know and learn about God, will be held to a higher standard than someone born into a religiously oppressive society, who never had the opportunity to learn about Him.
The word 'knowledge' is mentioned often. Knowledge of what? Science? Mathematics? Geology?
However, Religion is not based on knowledge, it's all based on belief only.
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Old 03-28-2010, 04:32 PM
 
1,838 posts, read 1,930,857 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HalfNelson View Post
Every person will be judge according to the knowledge they have. Once again it is all about choice. God knows what choice people make in their lives and He knows the motivation behind those choices. From the time Adam and Eve sinned people have been able to accept Christ. It was right at the fall of man that the sacrificial system was put in place and from that moment on it testified of Christ. People prior to Christ's death expressed their faith, that he would come and die for them, through the sacrificial system. God is love, but God is also Just. God will hold people accountable based on the knowledge they had and also the knowledge that was freely available, and offered to them. People who live in a society as religiously free and open as the USA, and have every opportunity to know and learn about God, will be held to a higher standard than someone born into a religiously oppressive society, who never had the opportunity to learn about Him.
so according to you everyone after Adam n Eve have been able to accept christ-please explain-

your also saying that everybody will be judged according to their knowledge-now i am confused-i thought you said that we'll be judged based on whether we accept Jesus or not

you say that God is love and also just-which is excactly my argument against eternal hell or anhialation

your last sentence is the one that really stood out-if only God made all people American then we would all be equally judged-wow

youve still failed to awnser the question's-especially 3 and 4
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Old 03-28-2010, 05:27 PM
 
701 posts, read 658,071 times
Reputation: 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by dobeable View Post
so according to you everyone after Adam n Eve have been able to accept christ-please explain-

your also saying that everybody will be judged according to their knowledge-now i am confused-i thought you said that we'll be judged based on whether we accept Jesus or not

you say that God is love and also just-which is excactly my argument against eternal hell or anhialation

your last sentence is the one that really stood out-if only God made all people American then we would all be equally judged-wow

youve still failed to awnser the question's-especially 3 and 4
Do we, as free will beings, have the right to choose non-existance? God loves us and created us, but He never asked us if we wanted to exist in His universe, so the only way we will truly exist here by choice, is if we have the choice to no longer exist. Unfortunately there are people who would rather cease to exist, than live in God's universe. Satan was the first to make that choice and ever since he did he has been trying get others onboard with his idea. Once again, God does love us all, but He cannot force any of us to love Him.

When Adam and Eve sinned God told them that Christ would come, and he instituted the sacrificial system which was a sign of what Christ would do on the cross of Calvary. You see from Adam to Christ people expressed their faith in Christ, that he would come, and from Christ to the present, people express their faith that He has come.

America is not the only place where religious freedom exists. what I was pointing out was that God knows what opportunity you had to know truth. God is not going to hold someone accountable for something they never had the opportunity to know, but He will know their heart, and how they lived their life, according to the knowledge they had. God knows how they would have responded, to the message of His Son, had they had the opportunity to hear that message. He will know this based on how they lived their life within the society they were confined to.

With regards to children, I know that God is Just and his decisions on each child will reflect that.

Please let me know if I have failed to address anything else.
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Old 03-28-2010, 07:39 PM
Status: "Build the damn wall!" (set 4 days ago)
 
Location: The Haunted Mansion
15,123 posts, read 8,222,812 times
Reputation: 1543
Quote:
Originally Posted by dobeable View Post
so if i just become a christian then ill be perfect you say- i used to be a christian and it only made things worse realy-i was afraid of God- now that my fear is gone i can start working on my Love for Him
You used to be a Christian? What do you mean by that? Whay made you a Christian?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dobeable View Post
one minute your saying your perfect the next your saying your a filthy rag -im confused
My best work is as "filthy rags" to God, meaning I can never be considered righteous by anything I do. Only my belief in & acceptance of Jesus' redemptive work on the cross makes me righteous before God. At Judgment Day, I can face God with confidence.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dobeable View Post
i agree with reverend111 -perfection has to be acheived its not just some mental concoction -oh i beleive this therefore im perfected-
see above. reverend111 speaks heresy. She does not believe Jesus was God, & further does not believe Jesus came to give His life for us. The latter is the basis for Christianity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dobeable View Post
if jesus died for you on the cross then why do you keep sinning,if your taking Jesus' name for your sins then why keep doin them,unless you are perfect but i doubt that -i personaly would rather take responsibilty and karma for me own thanks-if i ask Jesus for forgiveness but then keep on sinning then im only a cheat -lets ask Jesus to forgive us and it wont matter what sin we commit because He will forgive us no matter what,thats like using Jesus' name as an excuse to sin, unless you can say your sinnless-
A true believer is a "new creation", & no longer ruled by the sinful nature. Christians still sin (hopefully much less) because we are still "in the flesh". However, the Christian life should be characterized by the pursuit of righteousness. The Bible refers to this as "fruits of the Spirit".

Quote:
Originally Posted by dobeable View Post
again youve totally ignored the question

why is God sending non christians here knowing that they will burn in hell just for living their lives?
Everyone has a choice to accept or reject Jesus.
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Old 03-28-2010, 07:41 PM
Status: "Build the damn wall!" (set 4 days ago)
 
Location: The Haunted Mansion
15,123 posts, read 8,222,812 times
Reputation: 1543
Quote:
Originally Posted by dobeable View Post
ok i promise-LOL

but the sad part is is that Jesus did preach about love and love wouldnt have anything to do with that type of system-they just cant see past that
And you are obviously ignorant of Scripture. Jesus preached love AND judgment.
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