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A Christian could kill someone and they would still go to heaven.
A nonbeliever doesn't stand a chance of getting there!
You are ignorant of Scripture.
Are you aware Moses was a murderer? David was an adulterer & had a man killed to cover it up. Paul was a was putting Christians to death until his Damascus Road experience.
Yet, these are all great men of God & wrote much of the Bible. Why, because they truly sought forgiveness & gave their life to God's service.
A non-believer doesn't stand a chance because, without acceptance of Christ's sacrifice, they will stand covered in sin before God on Judgment Day.
if something in the bible contradicts Gods good charachter-like the eternal hell concept-or condradicts His love for all of humanity-then its wrong-do you agree or do you accept the condradiction
God's character is Holiness. Sin & holiness mix like oil & water. God always required a blood sacrifice for the remission of sin. Jesus was the ultimate, perfect, & final blood sacrifice for our sin.
who ever said that those don't matter to God? I never did. Do rapists and murderers who believe in God, have a BETTER chance at getting into heaven than someone who CHOOSES not to believe He exists? Of course! You see the mere fact that they believe He exists, means that they can repent of their sins and seek forgiveness, they can stop murdering and raping and turn their life over to God. If you don't believe He exists, and think that YOU can determine what is morally right in the world, absent of anything God might have to say on the matter, then you will never feel the need to confess any sin to Him or seek any change in your life, heck you feel your life is morally free of any blemish. It's like asking who has a better chance of finding buried treasure, someone who believes it exists or someone who doesn't. there is always hope that the person that believes it exists will one day order his life around searching for it, but the person that refuses to believe it exists will never even begin searching. In order for the non-believer to find the treasure he would first need to choose to believe it exists. Many people that I've talked with, who don't believe in God, seem to have an attitude of "I don't believe in this treasure and I want no part in searching for it", but if the treasure is found they seem to feel "hey, why can't I have any of the treasure? that's not fair" They claim there was no proof of the treasure's existence so why should they be so dumb to look, but the one who placed the treasure will simply say "I gave enough "proof" for countless billions to find it. The same "proof" that led them to it was the same "proof" offered to you. You simply choose not believe it and that makes me sad because I wanted you to choose this treasure, but I could not force you to choose it."
For one, there is no proof of god. Also, treasure is the wrong word. This life is a treasure. Religious beliefs are archaic and unnecessary. Also, you know absolutely nothing of the morality of atheists. Luckily for you, atheists aren't sociopaths who go around doing whatever they want without feeling any remorse. Atheists strive to be good and compassionate people to make this world better. If they make a mistake, then they seek to rectify it. They don't close their eyes and pray then pretend everything's okay. Although according to you, a christian who beats their kid is going to heaven because of their belief, but the atheist who showed their children kindness and actually was a good and honorable person is doomed to hell just because of their disbelief. Christians generally seem to place importance on belief while atheists generally place importance on action. Actions define the world, not belief.
For one, there is no proof of god. Also, treasure is the wrong word. This life is a treasure. Religious beliefs are archaic and unnecessary. Also, you know absolutely nothing of the morality of atheists. Luckily for you, atheists aren't sociopaths who go around doing whatever they want without feeling any remorse. Atheists strive to be good and compassionate people to make this world better. If they make a mistake, then they seek to rectify it. They don't close their eyes and pray then pretend everything's okay. Although according to you, a christian who beats their kid is going to heaven because of their belief, but the atheist who showed their children kindness and actually was a good and honorable person is doomed to hell just because of their disbelief.
Please stop drawing conclusions that I did not make. Do I believe that a parent who abuses their child will make it into heaven for simply saying they believe in Christ? No. What I'm saying is that truly believing in Christ means that the child abuser will stop abusing their child, because of the change in their lives made through a relationship with Christ. you keep mentioning that you are a good and honorable person (i'm not saying you aren't), but according to who? If there is no God all this is a moot point. Then there is no redemption for the Abusive father who changes his ways and no justice for the serial child molester who is never caught and laughs his way all the way to his grave. If there is a God though, than is it not His right to determine what is good and honorable? Who are we then to say, "well I did what I thought was right, so it shouldn't matter what you think". What if God is real and the 10 commandments valid? The last six all deal with our relationship to fellow man but the first 4 deal with our relationship with God. BTW - Why so much concern over what happens to you IF He exists, when you don't believe He does?
Added note: treasure is not the wrong word. Treasure is relative. I'm sure you feel THIS life is a treasure (i'm not saying it isn't), because you feel that it is the only one you have, but I on the other hand believe much differently. I do treasure this life a great deal, however it pales in comparison to what I look forward to at Christ's second coming. If I won $20,000 on a lottery scratcher ticket I'd be ecstatic, don't get me wrong, but that is nothing compared to winning say $500,000,000,000.
Last edited by HalfNelson; 03-28-2010 at 09:22 PM..
Please stop drawing conclusions that I did not make. Do I believe that a parent who abuses their child will make it into heaven for simply saying they believe in Christ? No. What I'm saying is that truly believing in Christ means that the child abuser will stop abusing their child, because of the change in their lives made through a relationship with Christ. you keep mentioning that you are a good and honorable person (i'm not saying you aren't), but according to who? If there is no God all this is a moot point. Then there is no redemption for the Abusive father who changes his ways and no justice for the serial child molester who is never caught and laughs his way all the way to his grave. If there is a God though, than is it not His right to determine what is good and honorable? Who are we then to say, "well I did what I thought was right, so it shouldn't matter what you think". What if God is real and the 10 commandments valid? The last six all deal with our relationship to fellow man but the first 4 deal with our relationship with God. BTW - Why so much concern over what happens to you IF He exists, when you don't believe He does?
What standard do you hold yourself to. Beating your child is biblically moral. Just read Deuteronomy, and according to Jesus the OT law still applies to christians so the claim that it doesn't apply anymore is a lie. If you hold yourself to god's standards then why don't you beat your children?
I don't have concern for what happens, but believers are the ones saying atheists are going to burn for their disbelief.
You certainly skipped over a lot of verses:
In Matthew 25:46, Jesus said that the unrighteous "will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life." Clearly both life in heaven and punishment in hell are eternal.
Jesus said that people "will be thrown outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth" and into "the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth," (Matthew 8:12 and Matthew 13:42). In the verses Mark 9:42-48, Jesus said that if a hand, foot or an eye caused you to sin, it would be better to lose it and enter heaven maimed than to be tossed into hell because of the sin it causes. Because, Jesus said, in hell the worm doesn't die and the fire is never quenched. The fire represents external torment and the worm describes internal torment, neither of which ever end. There are many other verses which describe hell as a terrible, dark place of eternal, fearful punishment.
Some argue that hell is not eternal but that the unrighteous will undergo annihilation. If something is annihilated, then it obviously has no feeling - it's like a rock. The trouble with this argument is that to a rock the fire is quenched, the worm is dead and it knows nothing of the darkness and fire where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth. A rock can't suffer at all so for punishment to be eternal the victim must have life. Whatever hell is, it is certainly a place to fear because God is going to pour His anger out on those who reject His Son ... for ever and ever. God allowed Jesus to suffer greatly, without mercy, on the cross to bring us to Himself. How much more is He going punish those who reject His offer of forgiveness?
1 John 4:8 says that "God is love." He has proved this love to the world through His Son Jesus. However, little thought is given to the fact that He is also Holy, Righteous and Just and that He will do exactly what John 3:36 says will be done ... "Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him."
Why do you bother writing all these verses?
No one but you takes them seriously. I bet even the people who wrote them thought it was a lot of nonsense.
Last edited by LA_Cienega; 03-28-2010 at 09:47 PM..
What standard do you hold yourself to. Beating your child is biblically moral. Just read Deuteronomy, and according to Jesus the OT law still applies to christians so the claim that it doesn't apply anymore is a lie. If you hold yourself to god's standards then why don't you beat your children?
I don't have concern for what happens, but believers are the ones saying atheists are going to burn for their disbelief.
The 10 commandments still apply and I don't recall a single one that says I have to beat my child. now just to be clear I got spankings when I was a kid and God know's I deserved it, heck one time my behind was literally black/blue, but I always knew my parents loved me. There is a huge difference in abuse and discipline. BTW - could you please cite the text saying I'm instructed to abuse my children.
I'm sorry if you hear from believers that you are going to burn for your disbelief. I personally feel that there will be many people that, while fire will be the means by which they are destroyed, they will not experience any physical pain. They will just experience the realization that they were very wrong and therefore missed out on the greater treasure that was available to them, then they will simply cease to exist, which if i'm not mistaken is what you believe happens to you when you die anyway right?
You certainly skipped over a lot of verses:
In Matthew 25:46, Jesus said that the unrighteous "will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life." Clearly both life in heaven and punishment in hell are eternal.
Jesus said that people "will be thrown outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth" and into "the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth," (Matthew 8:12 and Matthew 13:42). In the verses Mark 9:42-48, Jesus said that if a hand, foot or an eye caused you to sin, it would be better to lose it and enter heaven maimed than to be tossed into hell because of the sin it causes. Because, Jesus said, in hell the worm doesn't die and the fire is never quenched. The fire represents external torment and the worm describes internal torment, neither of which ever end. There are many other verses which describe hell as a terrible, dark place of eternal, fearful punishment.
Some argue that hell is not eternal but that the unrighteous will undergo annihilation. If something is annihilated, then it obviously has no feeling - it's like a rock. The trouble with this argument is that to a rock the fire is quenched, the worm is dead and it knows nothing of the darkness and fire where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth. A rock can't suffer at all so for punishment to be eternal the victim must have life. Whatever hell is, it is certainly a place to fear because God is going to pour His anger out on those who reject His Son ... for ever and ever. God allowed Jesus to suffer greatly, without mercy, on the cross to bring us to Himself. How much more is He going punish those who reject His offer of forgiveness?
1 John 4:8 says that "God is love." He has proved this love to the world through His Son Jesus. However, little thought is given to the fact that He is also Holy, Righteous and Just and that He will do exactly what John 3:36 says will be done ... "Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him."
So the guy that say stole supplies from his employer his whole life is going to burn just as long as say Hitler who murdered millions? Friend please, please, pleeeeeeease check out this site The Truth About Hell - Does Hell Burn Forever? it will shed some much needed biblical light on the subject of hell and how it relates to eternity.
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