U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 03-28-2010, 12:54 PM
 
113 posts, read 154,909 times
Reputation: 64

Advertisements

On returning from my church this morning, where the pastor had discussed the wages of sin, and of the consequences of being a non-believer, I wondered if God, who made us all equal and loved in His eyes, could accept those who are skeptics of his more unlikely feats.

If the various biblical tales are dumbed down to the lowest common denominator so as to get across the message to a largely uneducated peasant congregation, what about the increasing numbers of well-educated people in this world?

Does God allow for that in his messages? And if so, will He cut us slack when we get to Heaven? Because if He does, then the peristent atheists whose arguments seem based on logic are in no real danger, are they? "What if you're wrong?" will have no meaning as a threat. Just die, show up and explain yourself, honestly.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 03-28-2010, 01:06 PM
 
Location: Sinking in the Great Salt Lake
12,959 posts, read 18,560,737 times
Reputation: 13796
I don't believe god would hold it against us. It wouldn't be fair to drop us blind on a would with a million competing religions and expect us to just know the truth with only our feelings to guide us. Claiming otherwise is just a scare tactic by religious institutions to keep you in their fold.

Jesus said the two greatest commandments were to love god and and love your neighbor... simple in practice, but hard to do in reality.

But if you've got those covered you'll be fine and I highly doubt the rest of all that religious fluff will matter in the end.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-28-2010, 02:59 PM
 
3,614 posts, read 2,966,711 times
Reputation: 909
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-28-2010, 05:21 PM
 
701 posts, read 660,515 times
Reputation: 128

I'm not going to sit here and try to tell you that there aren't people like that, but that is not an accurate portrayal of what the bible teaches. I have always grown up with the understanding that God is not going to do for us, what we are capable of doing for ourselves. Does that mean people don't pray stupid prayers, of course they do. I can't seem to understand the common atheist view that all religious people think they are perfect, and that every flaw in the person, that can be pointed out, is a flaw in the religion. As to the OP. Lucifer ultimately got kicked out of heaven because he doubted/questioned God and His authority. People seem to have widely varying ideas of what "love" is. and what is meant by "acceptance"? You love your son but that doesn't mean you will accept him smoking crack in your house. God loves every human from the saintliest mother to the drug dealing murderer. Loving them does not mean letting them do whatever they want with no consequences. Loving them means giving them the freedom to make their own choices, even if those choices lead to their ultimate destruction. Sin has consequences. Many people today think they can be "good" with out any guidance from God, and that cannot be arrived at without an air of arrogance, and feeling of self importance. Skeptics often can't accept anything that falls outside of their ability to understand the hows of it all. they almost seem to have this idea that they are intellectually on par with God. Most self-identified skeptics I know label themselves as "well-educated" and have this feeling of enlightenment, that they have "risen above the ridiculous notion of God or His alleged miracles". Some of the most brilliant minds on earth believe in God. Ben Carson is a world renowned surgeon who believes in God. Einstein believed in God. Isaac Newton was a Christian.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-28-2010, 05:29 PM
 
701 posts, read 660,515 times
Reputation: 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by thotful1 View Post
Just die, show up and explain yourself, honestly.
What explanation could they give to God as a reason for denying his existence? The #1 reason I hear from Atheists is "there is no proof".

i see the scene like this. Atheist stands before God and explains that he wasn't given any evidence or sufficient "proof" of God's existence. God then turns around and points to the countless billions of people who believed, and said I gave you the same evidence and "proof" that everyone of them had, I even gave you more because you were blessed with more hindsight and raw intellect than many of them yet you still chose not to believe. Now tell Me the real reason why you didn't believe.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-28-2010, 06:02 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
30,047 posts, read 30,813,878 times
Reputation: 12226
Nobody "chooses" not to believe. For most of us the concept of an all powerful deity who watches every move we make, influences the weather, our health and every other aspect of our lives is just too silly to be credible
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-28-2010, 06:24 PM
 
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
3,334 posts, read 5,136,712 times
Reputation: 2035
Quote:
Originally Posted by HalfNelson View Post
What explanation could they give to God as a reason for denying his existence? The #1 reason I hear from Atheists is "there is no proof".

i see the scene like this. Atheist stands before God and explains that he wasn't given any evidence or sufficient "proof" of God's existence. God then turns around and points to the countless billions of people who believed, and said I gave you the same evidence and "proof" that everyone of them had, I even gave you more because you were blessed with more hindsight and raw intellect than many of them yet you still chose not to believe. Now tell Me the real reason why you didn't believe.
That's all fine and good if you mean "god" in a generic sense. If you mean "God" as the Christian god only, then the same could be said for the millions who believe in Allah, the millions who believe in Brahma-Vishnu-Shiva, the millions who are Buddhists and so on and so on. The Muslims, in particular, give a very similar argument.

Understand, I am not an atheist, yet I am also not Christian. I agree with Chango when he says," It wouldn't be fair to drop us blind on a would with a million competing religions and expect us to just know the truth with only our feelings to guide us."

That is why I believe that the OP asks a very good question.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-28-2010, 06:29 PM
 
Location: Blankity-blank!
11,449 posts, read 13,977,595 times
Reputation: 6877
Quote:
Originally Posted by HalfNelson View Post
What explanation could they give to God as a reason for denying his existence? The #1 reason I hear from Atheists is "there is no proof".

i see the scene like this. Atheist stands before God and explains that he wasn't given any evidence or sufficient "proof" of God's existence. God then turns around and points to the countless billions of people who believed, and said I gave you the same evidence and "proof" that everyone of them had, I even gave you more because you were blessed with more hindsight and raw intellect than many of them yet you still chose not to believe. Now tell Me the real reason why you didn't believe.
Proof is not in numbers. If 800 trillion people believed is of no consequence.
The real reason is that god's existence cannot be proven for lack of evidence.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-28-2010, 06:36 PM
 
Location: Tampa, FL
2,638 posts, read 10,553,275 times
Reputation: 3538
If you beleive in god, then god caused skeptics to be the way we are. If god doesn't like that, it is it's own damn fault for making us that way. If your god rejects us for being the way he made us, then what kind of god is that anyway?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-28-2010, 07:01 PM
 
701 posts, read 660,515 times
Reputation: 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fullback32 View Post
That's all fine and good if you mean "god" in a generic sense. If you mean "God" as the Christian god only, then the same could be said for the millions who believe in Allah, the millions who believe in Brahma-Vishnu-Shiva, the millions who are Buddhists and so on and so on. The Muslims, in particular, give a very similar argument.

Understand, I am not an atheist, yet I am also not Christian. I agree with Chango when he says," It wouldn't be fair to drop us blind on a would with a million competing religions and expect us to just know the truth with only our feelings to guide us."

That is why I believe that the OP asks a very good question.
Very salient point. The question is has He "dropped us here blind, with only our feelings to guide us"? I say absolutely not. just because error abounds, it does not mean truth is non-existant. Truth is out there, but it does have to be searched for. I believe the Bible is God's Truth. I believe in it's divine inspiration, and it's prophetic accuracy as evidence that it is Truth. Christ is the most unique individual in all human history. This carpenter from Nazareth was only in the public spotlight for 3.5 years yet he impacted humanity in such a profound way that 2000 years after his death we are still discussing it with fervor. Those that claimed to be witnesses, to his resurrection, where so convinced that the most of them died heinous deaths simply for refusing to deny that which they experienced. These weren't men that sought some agenda beyond telling people of what they experienced. What was it about this Man that impacted these lives so dramatically. what is it about this Man, that 2000 years later, He is still changing lives in the most dramatic of ways. He said He was the Messiah. Countless others throughout history have made this claim, and been summarily dismissed, but what makes this Man different? Maybe the possibility that He was who He claimed to be. We have had at least 6000 years of human existence. 6000 years of brilliant men and women with entire adult lifetimes in which to make their mark on the world, yet this Man made more of a mark in just 3.5 years, than all others combined. Why do I believe? Because what I have experienced through studying Him and His Word, is as real to me as my very existence.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top