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Old 03-30-2010, 11:24 AM
 
Location: Austin, TX
680 posts, read 1,171,388 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rifleman View Post
But, if a modified, partially accurate concept of god as a scientist, now using established and observable laws of nature for a change, floats your boat, then I'd say go for it. Heck; it may lead to an eventual and complete disassociation from the mystical, magic-required part!
The threat that some religious people feel from science is very strange to me. I don't find there to be any incompatibility between science and the notion of "God." For me, "God" or "Not God" is a debate that has lost any importance to me personally, but it becomes a problem when those who believe in God use that belief as a justification for perpetuating ignorance, oppressing those who disagree with them, controlling the individual choices of others, or going to war with those who have a different God.

The definition of "mystical" is too vague for me to care about it. I find evolution to be so wondrous and awe-inspiring that I could call it "mystical" in terms of my personal experience. But that subjective experience can also be explained by chemical shifts in my brain. So... call it mysticism or patterns of neuronal activity under the influence of neurotransmitters, it's all the same to me.
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Old 03-30-2010, 06:29 PM
 
Location: Somewhere out there
9,616 posts, read 11,101,953 times
Reputation: 3719
Quote:
Originally Posted by tongpa-nyi View Post
The definition of "mystical" is too vague for me to care about it. I find evolution to be so wondrous and awe-inspiring that I could call it "mystical" in terms of my personal experience.
Agreed, To-N. Although, as a biologist I can try to understand how DNA may have arisen on it's own in the first place, it is nonetheless quite the "mah-veh-luss" little molecule, the four (five) of them fitting so nicely with each other, almost as if they were.... gulp... designed that way. Aliens? Perhaps. Natural chance development? Peeeerrrrr...haaaapp.....ssss. A singular Abrahamic God who oddly screwed up on a lot of other things? To my way of thinking, nope; not so likely, but yes, possibly. I'm really not sure, to be honest.

But the nice thing is that once you've got DNA, stand back, Freddo! It's gonna happen, just exactly like a kid with a new really big box of Lego™. Adenine (A), Guanine (G), Thymine (T) and Cytosine (C) and occasionally Uracil (U) which can replace T in mRNA. Details details. No guiding hand required, just a lot of trial "fits" and a LOT of time. Which is exactly what happened!

A + T always together, and G + C ditto. That's the only way they "fit", like a well-cut jigsaw piece. No possible mistakes. And on top of that, they want to fit together, which makes trial and error bonding and then end-to-end assembly quite possible. Therefore you have a new amino acid code by simple chance, and it gets reliably made by the established cellular mechanics already in place, and then it gets tested in the real world.

Tick-tock, tick-tock, like a double-helix clock.

Though it seems to be too unbelievably complex to those who won't even read a simple intro on it, there's really not so very much to it. It happily goes about it's normal business, replicating what it's told to by the t- and r-RNA systems. Like the unstoppable cookie machine in the old I Love Lucy sequence. Can't be stopped. Gotta go! Make more DNA! With an occasional one in a million error.

continuous, ongoing mutations you gasp... Yep. Especially with those lemur and pre-chimp ancestors sitting around being bombarded with at least several major solar flare events during their lives. and volcanoes also which release a lot of natural radiation when they "pop". We, of course, either go inside or simply are inside far more, or flee from erupting volcanoes, and therefore suffer far fewer radiation-caused mutations.

Since human and chimp DNA differs only by a little over 1%, you can imagine that, given 10 million years, the possibility of the few necessary positive mutations within the hundreds of millions of sperm cell replications that occur in just one healthy male chimp or lemur every year is quite possible. Probable, in fact! Now multiply that by several hundred million lemur or chimp participants over those millions of years and generations!

Wow. Ain't math amazing?

And so.... here we are! Thanks, Mr. DNA!
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Old 03-31-2010, 02:46 PM
 
Location: Florida
595 posts, read 714,969 times
Reputation: 266
Default Man Apes and Evolution

Wheres the evolution? I have seen 30 varieties of various sized primate
monkey's and apes that have been around for tens of thousands of years
According to scripture the flesh of a human is different from that of all
of animals. Apes have always been apes past present and future .
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Old 03-31-2010, 03:16 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
30,046 posts, read 30,805,992 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DASULAR17 View Post
Wheres the evolution? I have seen 30 varieties of various sized primate
monkey's and apes that have been around for tens of thousands of years
According to scripture the flesh of a human is different from that of all
of animals. Apes have always been apes past present and future .
Yes, humans were apes in the past and ARE apes still. I wouldn't put any crediblity in scriptures when it comes to science. The writers knew nothing of science when jotting down these old stories.
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Old 03-31-2010, 10:43 PM
 
Location: Lethbridge, AB
1,132 posts, read 1,608,996 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DASULAR17 View Post
According to scripture the flesh of a human is different from that of all
of animals.
I've always heard human flesh is similar to pork. Coincidence?
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Old 03-31-2010, 10:58 PM
 
Location: Somewhere out there
9,616 posts, read 11,101,953 times
Reputation: 3719
Quote:
Originally Posted by DASULAR17 View Post
Wheres the evolution? I have seen 30 varieties of various sized primate monkey's and apes that have been around for tens of thousands of years.

According to scripture the flesh of a human is different from that of all
of animals. Apes have always been apes past present and future .
Wait now... According to scripture, God made all the animals one afternoon too. Since we know for sure that didn't happen, you need to be a bit more suspect of the bible as a science book.

Evolution of a new species does not require the extinction of the original species, D17, despite what the misguided apologists on Creationist websites might feed you. The original type can remain in it's happy niche, while the new type occupies a new niche. As well, all the different families of organism didn't evolve along a single family lineage. That would indeed be impossible. They occurred contemporaneously (at the same time, thousands of different lineages all responding to their own ecological pressures). That explains how we've arrived at the incredible diversity in the available time. No big trick.

So, nope. No real difference, technically, in the "flesh". Do you mean the biochemical structure of the organ we call skin? Yep; very minor genome diffs, yes, but essentially identical. Or... exactly what component or characteristic are you referring too, Dasular? Or do you even know?

As san says; scripture is devoid of technical credibility. Look at who wrote it, and when. Would you want a neuro-surgeon referencing it, word for word, if he was excising a tumor from your brain? Where would he look, exactly?

Consider the source, D17. Consider the source!
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Old 03-31-2010, 11:01 PM
 
Location: Not.here
2,828 posts, read 3,463,197 times
Reputation: 2347
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stubblejumper View Post
I've always heard human flesh is similar to pork. Coincidence?

Don't know about that, but the heart of a pig is very similar in size and structure to the heart of a human. That's why porcine (pig) valves have been used as replacements for human heart valves, after they are treated chemically. They provide a good fit.
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Old 03-31-2010, 11:03 PM
 
Location: Somewhere out there
9,616 posts, read 11,101,953 times
Reputation: 3719
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stubblejumper View Post
I've always heard human flesh is similar to pork. Coincidence?
Q: "Heard" from whom? Who you been "lunching" with, SJ?
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Old 03-31-2010, 11:29 PM
 
Location: Richland, Washington
4,078 posts, read 4,981,296 times
Reputation: 2483
Quote:
Originally Posted by DASULAR17 View Post
Wheres the evolution? I have seen 30 varieties of various sized primate
monkey's and apes that have been around for tens of thousands of years
According to scripture the flesh of a human is different from that of all
of animals. Apes have always been apes past present and future .
I wouldn't trust the ancient scribblings of goat herders whom had no more education than a first grader.
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Old 04-01-2010, 01:40 AM
 
Location: Lethbridge, AB
1,132 posts, read 1,608,996 times
Reputation: 974
Quote:
Originally Posted by rifleman View Post
Q: "Heard" from whom? Who you been "lunching" with, SJ?

No. I'd heard it as a rumor. Apparently burning human flesh also smells like bacon, which is a little unsettling.

But I was just being facetious and imagining God realizing he hadn't actually actually made human flesh different than other animals, and quickly throwing in a law to cover his ass.
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