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Old 04-18-2018, 01:31 PM
 
12,449 posts, read 13,091,627 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hannibal Flavius View Post
IS IT?

Now that makes sense to me, it always has made sense, being that I at least know that Jews lived before this Earth was created, I don't know if I can say this of Gentiles, but I do believe it is true of Jews, and it just makes sense to me.

Yes.
The Torah existed before the Earth was created.
The Torah is the blueprint used for Creation.
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Old 04-18-2018, 01:41 PM
Status: "Amused by BF." (set 8 days ago)
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
23,292 posts, read 12,061,902 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel View Post
Yes.
The Torah existed before the Earth was created.
The Torah is the blueprint used for Creation.
Amazing!

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Old 04-18-2018, 02:29 PM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
15,548 posts, read 6,999,363 times
Reputation: 1603
Quote:
Originally Posted by nateswift View Post
It is your entry that is NOW confusing or confused, I'm not sure which. Just exactly WHAT was given 3,381 years ago? Because it is NOT Tanach.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel View Post
here is what is pertinent to this thread:


the OT is NOT the same as the Tanakh
Reincarnation is part of Judaism.

So you are NOT going to clarify your confusion about the relation between Torah and Tanakh to answer the question posed by Arach Angle IN THIS THREAD.


'Nuf said.
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Old 04-18-2018, 05:03 PM
 
Location: Booth Texas
13,280 posts, read 4,238,900 times
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LOL, Pass the popcorn, and stop throwing your popcorn at the back of my head, that aint funny, well, a little funny, least I understand that.
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Old 04-18-2018, 05:07 PM
 
Location: planet earth
2,903 posts, read 1,021,414 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reverend1111 View Post
Jesus did not teach reincarnation because He knew that we are not of this world and that this is only temporary. He always emphasized that His kingdom was not of this world. We reap what we sow in the spirit world. There is no need to come back here to reap when we can do it there. Besides, we receive our spirit body upon incarnation and once we have it, we cannot lose it and in order to incarnate, we cannot have a spirit body. The soul is the real us, the spirit body protects the soul and the material body is only to protect them both while we are here then we lose the material body forever upon death.
Makes no sense.

What is your aversion to reincarnation?
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Old 04-18-2018, 05:08 PM
 
Location: planet earth
2,903 posts, read 1,021,414 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel View Post
Yes.
The Torah existed before the Earth was created.
The Torah is the blueprint used for Creation.
That's your BELIEF.
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Old 04-18-2018, 07:45 PM
 
12,449 posts, read 13,091,627 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nobodysbusiness View Post
Makes no sense.

What is your aversion to reincarnation?
i have wondered that myself many times, why people have such an aversion to reincarnation. I often ask people, and have never really gotten a satisfactory answer. Reincarnation has been an integral part of human worldviews across time and across civilization and across cultures and across the globe.

from this article
Observations on reincarnation beliefs in history.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel View Post
"The Cradle of Western Civilization. Four river valleys are associated by modern historians with the rise of civilizations whose cultures shaped the way Westerners think. The ancient Indo-European kingdoms that gave the Western peoples their languages, alphabets, institutions, science and religions flourished along the Tigris-Euphrates, Nile and Indus rivers. (The birth of East Asian culture is placed in the Huang-He-Yangtze river system of China.) The oldest (Vedic) texts from this “cradle of western civilization” indicate belief in a transcendent atman (what we call soul).

"These texts, alleged to be Hindu records of traditions more than 5,000 years-old passed from the rishis (sages) through generations of Brahmins, clearly discuss reincarnation (sometimes referred to as transmigration or metempsychosis). The Satapatha Brahmana (Brahman of 100 Ways) describes specific forms in the process of rebirth. The 3,500 year-old Upanishads have many such references.

"In one Vedic text, the advanced being known as Krishna, who allegedly taught the South Asian humans much about the universe, told them "many a birth have I passed through, and so have you." This Hindu view of reincarnation as the means through which humans can reach enlightenment is shared by Jainism and Sikhism.

"Buddhism on Reincarnation. The reformist teacher Buddha (c. 500 BCE) retained the same basic concept as he attempted to urge Hinduism’s return to its simpler, more natural worldview. However, the concept in Buddhism is called re-birth or re-becoming (Punarbhava in Sanskrit). This places the on-going focus on the consciousness embodied in an individual instead of the physical body

"The Buddhist text known popularly as the Tibetan Book of the Dead, teaches that incarnations of the soul involve the principles of birth, life, and transition. These cycles repeat themselves as the soul progresses toward "enlightenment". The Buddhist believes that if the soul does not make sufficient progress during a series of physical incarnations it must keep returning for further development. Only by achieving “enlightenment” can the soul escape the wheel of birth and rebirth.

"The Chinese I Ching from about 2,500 BCE refers to eternal cycles of life and multidimensional development that could involve many lifetimes. About 200 years after Buddha the concepts described were incorporated into Chinese Taoism

"The Egyptian concepts of Ba and Ka also suggest reincarnation. The term Ba seems to imply a phenomenon like the transcendent soul described in this book. The term Ka apparently refers to an aspect of the Ba which is individuated and linked to a physical body, an in a soul-incarnate.

"Plato (429-348 BCE) wrote "The soul is older than the body. Souls are continuously born over again into this life." He believed, as the Gnostics later taught, that the soul had two options: Achievement of full memory of one’s many human experiences (gnosis) to rejoin the universal soul (as in the Buddhist nirvana), or to ignore the lessons from multiple lives and be forced to continue perpetual incarnations.

"Greek writings during the period from about 1,500 BCE until the 6th century CE suggest Western sages shared the Hindu view on reincarnation. These philosophies held that the thinking human intuitively feels himself or herself a seeker of deeper and deeper knowledge. Further, that the reflective person learns from each lifetime and builds on that experience in successive reincarnations.

"In the Hebrew view “reincarnation takes place so that people may progress spiritually through healing or correction. This ancient Hebrew tradition’s concept of reincarnation involved working towards a reconnection with the creative source of light. It is not unlike the Hindu/Buddhist notion of achievement of enlightenment (awakening to the light).

"Some of the earliest followers of the teacher Jesus, known in Greek as Gnostics, shared this cosmology."
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Old 04-18-2018, 09:51 PM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
15,548 posts, read 6,999,363 times
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Sho, if there is reincarnation instead of Hell for all those horrible sinners, where's the fun in THAT?
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Old 04-19-2018, 04:54 AM
 
Location: US
26,256 posts, read 13,920,882 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nateswift View Post
If you follow the thread, I was just trying to clarify to Arach Angle what the Jewish perception of the origin of the written or strict definition of Torah is. VovaLee has some input on scholarly information concerning that which may be interesting in itself, but not appropriate to this thread.
Ah, gotcha...Sorry, my bad...
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Old 04-19-2018, 04:59 AM
 
Location: US
26,256 posts, read 13,920,882 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nateswift View Post
It is your entry that is NOW confusing or confused, I'm not sure which. Just exactly WHAT was given 3,381 years ago? Because it is NOT Tanach.
The Written Torah and the Oral Torah both were given at Har Sinai 3,331 years ago...The Nevi’im And K’tuvi’im we’re added over time, as events occurred...
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