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Old 04-03-2010, 11:57 PM
 
Location: London UK & Florida USA
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Many people need a reason as to why something is "bad" if they disagree,fear or just plain do not understand it. "God" is as good a name as any to use as some kind of justification to condemn homosexuality. As a member of the animal kingdom myself i quite understand that we are all no different to any other animal on earth except that we have developed further in some ways than other animals one development is that we can invent imaginary stories to justify or condemn our actions. Homosexuality is only a problem with some humans. NEWSFLASH.....Homosexuality is as normal as heterosexuality and is not a choice but a biological fact.
All i can say to any of the religious homophobes out there is............. If you think going out with someone of the same sex as you is wrong....DON'T DO IT ...........but please stop judging people who do.......it's NOT your place or right to do so and stop using this "god's law" to justify your bigotry.
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Old 04-04-2010, 12:23 AM
 
3,614 posts, read 2,963,892 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ptsum View Post
I would think that he's both a Pedophile and a Homosexual and also a Criminal.
You need to admit you are wrong on this ptsum. The sex of children that pedophiles engage with is not a meaningful or reliable measure of their sexual orientation because their attraction is not based on the sex of them, but the age of child.
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Old 04-04-2010, 12:46 AM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
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They are clearly pedophiles, and their crimes are crimes of opportunity...I spent 18 years in the Catholic religion...Catholic schools, etc...At that time there were no alter girls, (I was an alter boy) and I don't think there are now...The priests generally handled boys groups, and had little or nothing to do with the girls....They were taken care of by nuns....I believe that alter boys are at the greatest risk.
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Old 04-04-2010, 09:47 AM
 
Location: Las Vegas, NV
3,849 posts, read 3,176,592 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikk View Post
I am a male and I choose to obey God's law!
As a Christian and considering the context of this thread, I find the above quite confusing. Could you tell me where in the Bible I might find this "law"? Because as far as I know, the main law that Jesus left us with is that, first, we love God and secondly we love one another as He loved us all.
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Old 04-04-2010, 10:20 AM
 
Location: Log home in the Appalachians
10,495 posts, read 10,094,836 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Konraden View Post
You need to admit you are wrong on this ptsum. The sex of children that pedophiles engage with is not a meaningful or reliable measure of their sexual orientation because their attraction is not based on the sex of them, but the age of child.
No I don't think I am wrong, I'm talking about the Catholic priests that have forcible sex with little boys, the priest and the little boys were of the same sex and by any definition that would be considered an act of homosexuality and because they are children the priests are also considered to be pedophiles, so you see they are both a pedophile and a homosexual for having forcible sex with little boys and that is a criminal act by the laws of this country, it's called rape. Surely you don't condone any acts such as that and I find it inexcusable that anybody would be making excuses for these kind of priests, there is absolutely no excuse for these despicable acts perpetrated upon innocent children and quite frankly I think they should all be locked up for the rest of their lives.
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Old 04-04-2010, 10:44 AM
 
Location: Las Vegas, NV
3,849 posts, read 3,176,592 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ptsum View Post
No I don't think I am wrong, I'm talking about the Catholic priests that have forcible sex with little boys, the priest and the little boys were of the same sex and by any definition that would be considered an act of homosexuality and because they are children the priests are also considered to be pedophiles, so you see they are both a pedophile and a homosexual for having forcible sex with little boys and that is a criminal act by the laws of this country, it's called rape. Surely you don't condone any acts such as that and I find it inexcusable that anybody would be making excuses for these kind of priests, there is absolutely no excuse for these despicable acts perpetrated upon innocent children and quite frankly I think they should all be locked up for the rest of their lives.
First, I don't think I've ever read any account where it was stated that any of them had 'forcible sex' with the boys they molested. Secondly, as pedophilia is usually a 'crime of convenience', then you should remember that the convenient victims of priests are boys because they are altar boys, trusted to the care of the priest. No one is 'making excuses' here. We are merely attempting to get you to see the difference between homosexuality and pedophilia. One does not equal the other.
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Old 04-04-2010, 10:58 AM
 
Location: Log home in the Appalachians
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MsMcQ LV View Post
First, I don't think I've ever read any account where it was stated that any of them had 'forcible sex' with the boys they molested. Secondly, as pedophilia is usually a 'crime of convenience', then you should remember that the convenient victims of priests are boys because they are altar boys, trusted to the care of the priest. No one is 'making excuses' here. We are merely attempting to get you to see the difference between homosexuality and pedophilia. One does not equal the other.

Maybe you should start reading some of the accounts by the victims who said they were forced into having sex with these priests. And let me ask you a question, what is the definition of homosexual sex, is it not having sex with a person of the same sex? I realize we're splitting hairs here but a person who has sex with someone of the same sex, regardless of age, that is called homosexual and why should it make any difference if it's a priest or an ordinary person, why are priest treated differently? They have broken the law and should be made to pay for it. I have no sympathy for anyone who abuses children in any way shape or form, especially priests, because they have been entrusted to look after the care of children and those that abuse children in such a manner have broken that trust and have no business being priests anymore and should face man's law for their criminal acts.
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Old 04-04-2010, 11:25 AM
 
17,853 posts, read 11,818,281 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ptsum View Post
No I don't think I am wrong, I'm talking about the Catholic priests that have forcible sex with little boys, the priest and the little boys were of the same sex and by any definition that would be considered an act of homosexuality and because they are children the priests are also considered to be pedophiles, so you see they are both a pedophile and a homosexual for having forcible sex with little boys and that is a criminal act by the laws of this country, it's called rape. Surely you don't condone any acts such as that and I find it inexcusable that anybody would be making excuses for these kind of priests, there is absolutely no excuse for these despicable acts perpetrated upon innocent children and quite frankly I think they should all be locked up for the rest of their lives.
No-one's making any excuses for these despicable predators, but there is a big difference between a homosexual "act" because the perpetrator is of the same gender as the victim, and a person with a homosexual orientation who is only attracted to adult males. So labelling these predators as "homosexuals" or gay is misleading and inaccurate.

And personally, I think it's a complete red herring by some people to try to shift the blame (by vilifying homosexuals) from the Church Hierarchy who covered up the practices of their predator priests.

Did you read any of the links to studies or information I provided? Please do if you get the time.

The reseachers of the study by the John Jay College of Criminology (an independant body commissioned to investigate the abuse in the Catholic Church), stated they "found no evidence that gay priests are more likely than heterosexual clergy to molest children".

How much clearer than that can you get?

And here's the conclusions of just ONE study that I linked to that showed that men who abused young boys were either pedophiles who also abused young girls, or heterosexual men in adult relationships with women.

Quote:
A random sample of 175 males convicted of sexual assault against children was screened with reference to their adult sexual orientation and the sex of their victims. The sample divided fairly evenly into two groups based on whether they were sexually fixated exclusively on children or had regressed from peer relationships. Female children were victimized nearly twice as often as male children.

All regressed offenders, whether their victims were male or female children, were heterosexual in their adult orientation.

There were no examples of regression to child victims among peer-oriented, homosexual males. The possibility emerges that homosexuality and homosexual pedophilia may be mutually exclusive and that the adult heterosexual male constitutes a greater risk to the underage child than does the adult homosexual male.
Adult sexual orientation and attraction to underage persons. Groth AN, Birnbaum HJ.

And from a large study of almost 4000 child sexual molestors in the US:
http://www.childmolestationpreventio...pdfs/study.pdf

Quote:
"The majority of the men who sexually molested boys were married, divorced, widowed or living with an adult partner."
I'm not sure how much clearer I can make it... Just because the victims were boys does not mean these predator priests were gay.
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Old 04-04-2010, 12:05 PM
 
Location: Log home in the Appalachians
10,495 posts, read 10,094,836 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaymax View Post
No-one's making any excuses for these despicable predators, but there is a big difference between a homosexual "act" because the perpetrator is of the same gender as the victim, and a person with a homosexual orientation who is only attracted to adult males. So labelling these predators as "homosexuals" or gay is misleading and inaccurate.

And personally, I think it's a complete red herring by some people to try to shift the blame (by vilifying homosexuals) from the Church Hierarchy who covered up the practices of their predator priests.

Did you read any of the links to studies or information I provided? Please do if you get the time.

The reseachers of the study by the John Jay College of Criminology (an independant body commissioned to investigate the abuse in the Catholic Church), stated they "found no evidence that gay priests are more likely than heterosexual clergy to molest children".

How much clearer than that can you get?

And here's the conclusions of just ONE study that I linked to that showed that men who abused young boys were either pedophiles who also abused young girls, or heterosexual men in adult relationships with women.


Adult sexual orientation and attraction to underage persons. Groth AN, Birnbaum HJ.

And from a large study of almost 4000 child sexual molestors in the US:
http://www.childmolestationpreventio...pdfs/study.pdf


I'm not sure how much clearer I can make it... Just because the victims were boys does not mean these predator priests were gay.

I'm not trying to vilify homosexuals, I have nothing against them, it's their lifestyle not mine and I respect that but what I find hypocritical is that the Roman Catholic Church and its representatives, namely the priests, spout off about how homosexuality is a sin and against their Gods laws and yet here they have among their own are what some would consider homosexuals and not just pedophiles, which is what I find rather ironic, the pot calling the kettle black, maybe they should take a good hard look at themselves first before they start criticizing other people's lifestyles. Being a homosexual in this country is not against the law, being a pedophile is and I don't care who you are, you should be brought to justice for your crimes.
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Old 04-04-2010, 12:56 PM
 
17,853 posts, read 11,818,281 times
Reputation: 4113
Quote:
Originally Posted by ptsum View Post
I'm not trying to vilify homosexuals, I have nothing against them, it's their lifestyle not mine and I respect that but what I find hypocritical is that the Roman Catholic Church and its representatives, namely the priests, spout off about how homosexuality is a sin and against their Gods laws and yet here they have among their own are what some would consider homosexuals and not just pedophiles, which is what I find rather ironic, the pot calling the kettle black, maybe they should take a good hard look at themselves first before they start criticizing other people's lifestyles. Being a homosexual in this country is not against the law, being a pedophile is and I don't care who you are, you should be brought to justice for your crimes.
Okay, I think I see where you are coming from. Yes the hypocrisy is more than ironic.

I think several of us were just trying to get the point across that having same gender sex with someone doesn't automatically mean that someone is gay.

Think prisons. Men who rape other men in prisons go back to their wives/ girlfriends/female prostitutes etc when they get out. They had same-gender or "homosexual" sex because they only had access to men and it was a power/dominance thing -not love or an attraction to men. But they are not homosexuals.

And that pedophiles will more than likely sexually abuse children of either gender, because it's the innocence of a child who has no power that attracts the mongrels, not whether they are male or female. There is not usually a gender orientation involved.

Last edited by Ceist; 04-04-2010 at 01:40 PM..
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