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Old 04-03-2010, 10:23 AM
 
Location: Richland, Washington
4,071 posts, read 4,968,677 times
Reputation: 2479

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Quote:
Originally Posted by tigetmax24 View Post
So you would then freely admit that you, as an atheist, have no basis for making a moral judgment?

In other words, it's all relative? No one person, state or societies view of morality is any better than the moral view of any other person, state or society?
Did you even read my post? I didn't say I had no basis for making moral judgements. You keep babbling about how you think atheists 'have no basis for making moral moral judgements', yet you don't even follow biblical morality, which says that the bible and it's god aren't your basis for moral judgements. So tell us, what is your great and superior basis?
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Old 04-03-2010, 10:39 AM
 
Location: East Coast U.S.
1,513 posts, read 1,398,088 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by agnostic soldier View Post
Did you even read my post?
Yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by agnostic soldier View Post
I didn't say I had no basis for making moral judgements.
Right, that's why I asked the question. I want you to clarify your position. What is your basis for making moral judgments?
Quote:
Originally Posted by agnostic soldier View Post
You keep babbling about how you think atheists 'have no basis for making moral moral judgements', yet you don't even follow biblical morality, which says that the bible and it's god aren't your basis for moral judgements.
No, I don't just "think" atheists have no basis for making moral judgments. It would seem to me to follow, logically, that if there is no transcendent being there can be no transcendent law - hence my question to you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by agnostic soldier View Post
So tell us, what is your great and superior basis?
Transcendent law from a transcendent creator.

Again, what is your "superior" basis?

You see, I'm not afraid to give simple and direct answers to simple and direct questions vice "babbling" on in incessant rhetorical obfuscation.
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Old 04-03-2010, 11:06 AM
 
1,745 posts, read 1,828,346 times
Reputation: 935
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
But where does it say slavery is moral?
Your Bible is supposedly Moderator cut: editGod's perfect message of objective morality for humanity. So the question is WHY DOES IT NOT condemn slavery?

It's pretty sad when my ten year old nephew can write a better set of principles and laws for morality than your god.

Last edited by Miss Blue; 04-03-2010 at 11:47 AM.. Reason: The insulting intentional mispelling of God is not allowed
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Old 04-03-2010, 11:16 AM
 
1,468 posts, read 1,834,768 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QuixoticHobbit View Post
Your Bible is supposedly Gawd's perfect message of objective morality for humanity. So the question is WHY DOES IT NOT condemn slavery?

It's pretty sad when my ten year old nephew can write a better set of principles and laws for morality than your god.
I found this to be a very interesting discussion on the question of Christianity and slavery. Perhaps you will find it interesting as well!

http://www.christian-thinktank.com/qnoslave.html
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Old 04-03-2010, 11:20 AM
 
Location: Richland, Washington
4,071 posts, read 4,968,677 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tigetmax24 View Post
Yes.


Right, that's why I asked the question. I want you to clarify your position. What is your basis for making moral judgments?


No, I don't just "think" atheists have no basis for making moral judgments. It would seem to me to follow, logically, that if there is no transcendent being there can be no transcendent law - hence my question to you.



Transcendent law from a transcendent creator.

Again, what is your "superior" basis?

You see, I'm not afraid to give simple and direct answers to simple and direct questions vice "babbling" on in incessant rhetorical obfuscation.
As I've said before, atheists aren't sociopaths and therefore have a concience which is the basis for making moral judgements. I don't see why you need a transcendent law to have any basis for making moral judgements. Just because there is no transcendent law doesn't mean there is no basis for making moral judgements. I'd like to know what transcendent creator you believe in. It obviously isn't the judeo christian god because there are loads of morals in the bible that you don't follow.
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Old 04-03-2010, 11:27 AM
 
1,745 posts, read 1,828,346 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tigetmax24 View Post
Transcendent law from a transcendent creator.

Again, what is your "superior" basis?
All of the laws and commandments contained in The Bible were copied from earlier Sumerian and Egyptian texts. So, which transcendent creator do you worship - Enlil or Horus?
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Old 04-03-2010, 12:12 PM
 
Location: East Coast U.S.
1,513 posts, read 1,398,088 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by agnostic soldier View Post
As I've said before, atheists aren't sociopaths and therefore have a concience which is the basis for making moral judgements.
...and what in the world does sociopathic behavior and one's conscience have to do with having a logical basis for morality?

Quote:
Originally Posted by agnostic soldier View Post
I don't see why you need a transcendent law to have any basis for making moral judgements.
Fine, please bear with me and answer some questions and I promise you will indeed see why it's necessary to have transcendent law.

Is it right or is it wrong to murder millions of people?

Quote:
Originally Posted by agnostic soldier View Post
Just because there is no transcendent law doesn't mean there is no basis for making moral judgements.
Says you. I keep asking you to sensibly explain how this could be so and you won't answer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by agnostic soldier View Post
I'd like to know what transcendent creator you believe in. It obviously isn't the judeo christian god because there are loads of morals in the bible that you don't follow.
You seem to know a lot about me. What "loads" of morals am I failing to follow?
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Old 04-03-2010, 12:35 PM
 
Location: Richland, Washington
4,071 posts, read 4,968,677 times
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Quote:
and what in the world does sociopathic behavior and one's conscience have to do with having a logical basis for morality
Your concience tells you the difference between right and wrong. Your concience is therefore the basis for your moral judgements, irregardless of faith, religion race, sex or sexual orientation.



Quote:
Fine, please bear with me and answer some questions and I promise you will indeed see why it's necessary to have transcendent law.

You still haven't sold me on the notion that transcendent law is necessary for a basis for moral judgements. You even disprove your argument by the fact you don't practice slavery.

Quote:
Is it right or is it wrong to murder millions of people?
Yes. Why do you think it's wrong?



Quote:
Says you. I keep asking you to sensibly explain how this could be so and you won't answer.
As I said before, atheists have a concience which tells them the difference between right and wrong, which is therefore their basis for moral judgements. This is obviously not so for many christians.


Quote:
You seem to know a lot about me. What "loads" of morals am I failing to follow?
[/quote]

Slavery, infanticide etc.
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Old 04-03-2010, 01:01 PM
 
Location: Planet Water
815 posts, read 1,340,504 times
Reputation: 199
Read the moment. When it gives the wife to the Pharaoh (false sister). The Pharaoh gives : slaves , camel and horse. God Iegova has given advice. How to get property having ( enclose the wife ) .
2) Iegova gives Avraam and its native to slavery for 400 years.

Last edited by eloy; 04-03-2010 at 01:18 PM..
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Old 04-03-2010, 01:46 PM
 
31,385 posts, read 31,082,292 times
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This is just plain silly and I'm going to treat it as such.

Morality comes from the same place everything else that we humans call knowledge, 150,000 years of trial and error! Frankly there isn't a single so called divine transcendent law that even a marginally sentient being couldn't come up with in that time period.


Thou shalt not covet or steal your neighbors stuff, including their significant other, duh!

Nothing brings together group cohesion than someone lusting over someone else's stuff or just taking it! You don't have to be a rocket scientist or some guy summoned to the top of a mountain for face time with god to know that jealousy, and envy lead to...

Thou shalt not kill, double duh!

What animal or being that depends on a group for survival doesn't understand that killing a member of the group without a really valid reason endangers not only the groups chances for survival but the individual as well?
"Let see... I like Nog's old lady, but if I make a move, Nog is gonna go all Neanderthal on me, and if I wind up having kill him who is gonna help me bring back the Mastodon meat? So, maybe I should just ask Nog if his old lady has a sister."
It doesn't require a Charlton Heston lookin dude dressed in a robe and wearing prehistoric Birkenstocks to figure out that folks need some rules to live by!

Now yes, Judaism, Christianity and Islam put some extra local spin on the rules, don't eat pork, ok, everybody knows that if you don't cook up your Sunday ham right folks are gonna get sick, so maybe you shouldn't be eating no pork if you don't have a proper thermometer, which they didn't have back in the day. But if you go anywhere in the world, folks who have never given god a second thought know that you don't just up and kill other folks, you don't steal their ***, and you leave their old ladies alone.

When you've got 150,000 years to figure this stuff out, you can come up with some pretty comprehensive rules to live by.

Last edited by ovcatto; 04-03-2010 at 02:50 PM..
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