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Old 04-06-2010, 04:44 AM
 
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All religions focus on death -- they named it as afterlife in eternity.

Living under the fear of death (and what comes with it) appears to be the core philosophy of religion.

Other than coercing followers into doing what religion tells them to do, what meaningful actions can this bring?
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Old 04-06-2010, 05:03 AM
 
Location: S. Wales.
50,082 posts, read 20,556,241 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic235 View Post
All religions focus on death -- they named it as afterlife in eternity.

Living under the fear of death (and what comes with it) appears to be the core philosophy of religion.

Other than coercing followers into doing what religion tells them to do, what meaningful actions can this bring?

It helps to alleviate that fear of death. The unfortunate side- effect is to devalue this one life we have as nothing much but mental preparation for being fired out of the cannon of existence into the net of the hereafter.
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Old 04-07-2010, 05:20 AM
 
Location: Indianapolis
4,323 posts, read 6,010,333 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic235 View Post
All religions focus on death -- they named it as afterlife in eternity.

Living under the fear of death (and what comes with it) appears to be the core philosophy of religion.

Other than coercing followers into doing what religion tells them to do, what meaningful actions can this bring?
There is nothing wrong with teaching about the afterlife as we will all be there someday. However, most religions put fear in the subject as a way to coerce one to their way of thinking. If we live our lives here with happiness, doing what is right and just Being, there should be no fear in anything, including death.

Death and the afterlife should be talked about. What most people talk about is their fear of that death and the "torment" one may have to endure. I believe this is totally wrong thinking. If we provide a way so that people can enjoy this life and a way to instill Love of death instead of fear of death, we may see some progress in that area. There really isn't much info out there except channeled messages and people who have had NDE's. Of course, religion has instilled enough fear into their followers that either one of those resources is of the "devil" and can't be trusted. So that just leaves the imaginations of the living to be relied on.

I, myself, am not afraid of death. I look forward to it as I do feel comfortable with my own beliefs about the afterlife and what will happen. The channeled messages I do believe in offer insight to the spirit world and what to expect once this life is over.
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Old 04-07-2010, 05:47 AM
 
Location: S. Wales.
50,082 posts, read 20,556,241 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reverend1111 View Post
There is nothing wrong with teaching about the afterlife as we will all be there someday. However, most religions put fear in the subject as a way to coerce one to their way of thinking. If we live our lives here with happiness, doing what is right and just Being, there should be no fear in anything, including death.

Death and the afterlife should be talked about. What most people talk about is their fear of that death and the "torment" one may have to endure. I believe this is totally wrong thinking. If we provide a way so that people can enjoy this life and a way to instill Love of death instead of fear of death, we may see some progress in that area. There really isn't much info out there except channeled messages and people who have had NDE's. Of course, religion has instilled enough fear into their followers that either one of those resources is of the "devil" and can't be trusted. So that just leaves the imaginations of the living to be relied on.

I, myself, am not afraid of death. I look forward to it as I do feel comfortable with my own beliefs about the afterlife and what will happen. The channeled messages I do believe in offer insight to the spirit world and what to expect once this life is over.
That's actually not a bad post but I can't cred. you as you say, correctly,
"There really isn't much info out there except channeled messages and people who have had NDE's". But you then say: "There is nothing wrong with teaching about the afterlife as we will all be there someday".

After having pointed up that there is no good evidence for it, of course it's wrong to teach about it as though it were fact.

One could equally argue that it it better to teach people to live as though there were NO afterlife and make the most of this life we have as though it were our one and only.

Since you also say: "fear of that death and the "torment" one may have to endure. I believe this is totally wrong thinking", then the teaching of an afterlife without good evidence is wrong as it effectively puts people off doing a good job because they are told to believe that God will put it right. We cannot live like that.

The belief about torment as being totally wrong would depend on why. If it was just because you didn't care for it, that would be dangerously wrong -headed, like refusing to wear a seatbelt because you didn't want to think about the possibility of having a crash.

No, if consideration of the claims for torment after death revealed that they don't make any sense and have not a scrap of good evidential support, then that would be a good reason to dismiss that as totally wrong thinking.
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Old 04-07-2010, 06:30 AM
 
Location: Indianapolis
4,323 posts, read 6,010,333 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AREQUIPA View Post
That's actually not a bad post but I can't cred. you as you say, correctly,
"There really isn't much info out there except channeled messages and people who have had NDE's". But you then say: "There is nothing wrong with teaching about the afterlife as we will all be there someday".

After having pointed up that there is no good evidence for it, of course it's wrong to teach about it as though it were fact.

One could equally argue that it it better to teach people to live as though there were NO afterlife and make the most of this life we have as though it were our one and only.

Since you also say: "fear of that death and the "torment" one may have to endure. I believe this is totally wrong thinking", then the teaching of an afterlife without good evidence is wrong as it effectively puts people off doing a good job because they are told to believe that God will put it right. We cannot live like that.

The belief about torment as being totally wrong would depend on why. If it was just because you didn't care for it, that would be dangerously wrong -headed, like refusing to wear a seatbelt because you didn't want to think about the possibility of having a crash.

No, if consideration of the claims for torment after death revealed that they don't make any sense and have not a scrap of good evidential support, then that would be a good reason to dismiss that as totally wrong thinking.
I can see your point and maybe I should clarify.
The current teachings of afterlife, say, from a biblical standpoint, teach that the after life is either good or bad with no inbetween. I guess that may be what I'm getting at.
If we adhere to the old ways of teaching about the AL, then we teach that the AL is negative. If we teach from a new thought process stemming from current "prophetic" inspirations, then we can grasp at least some idea of what may or may not be true.

I don't believe that the AL is all negative and I also don't believe it's all positive. I believe the AL can be about the same as we have here witohut the violence because I believe violence can only harm one here.

In a spirit form, we only have our thoughts, ideas and beliefs whereas here, we have the functions of a material world to go with all of those.

If we teach of no afterlife then that would just leave more questions about where the spirit and soul of a person goes. Would it then be considered that it just hangs around, always in a flux. Would that instill even more fear if you thought your grand parents were hanging out, right outside your house or someplace else. We all need the security of knowing, either intuitively or seeing, that our loved ones are at least some place besides out in thin air.

I couldn't live with my self just teaching my own child that death should be feared or just not acknowledged. I have to teach him "something" that is positive so that when I pass on, he isn't wondering if I'm in a place of discomfort or just lolly gagging around in the air.

I have found, read and believe in over 10,000 channeled messages that state emphatically the same thing. That we go to a place that our soul is fitted for and we continue to progress in spirit form in the spirit world. They all agree. That is one of many things that they have in common and well over a thousand authors. At this stage in my progression, I cannot imagine that we would just not continue or that there is no inbetween.

I think there is a positive way to terach of the afterlife. There can be a common ground for all religions. I believe there are some teachings in the bible from Jesus that do state things of the afterlife and that we continue on from here. I couldn't tell you where as it's been a while since I read it.
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Old 04-07-2010, 07:07 AM
 
Location: S. Wales.
50,082 posts, read 20,556,241 times
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Thanks for an equable reply. I can have a lot of sympathy with your position; however, I have an axiom, The truth is important.

It matters to me that what I believe, and what I might teach others to believe, should have some evidential support, which means testing extraordinary claims to make sure they stand up.

There are as many claims about info from beyond the grave as there are religions and the fact that they all have one common element - a desire for evidence that death is not the end - is not good enough reason to take an afterlife as real.

You'll probably know that I am agnostic about an afterlife. I find it hard to imagine how it could work where I am, in any sense, 'Me'. And I doubt the claims of channelled messages. I'd want those competently tested by asking repeated somethings that would prove that they came from beyond someone's own head. And I'd think you should, too. But that's your decision.

All I can say, as you may know, Rev. and folks, is that, If there is an afterlife, it is not to be handed out by some deity as a reward or bribe to its favorite fawners. If there is one, we all get it.
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Old 04-07-2010, 07:39 AM
 
Location: Indianapolis
4,323 posts, read 6,010,333 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AREQUIPA View Post
Thanks for an equable reply. I can have a lot of sympathy with your position; however, I have an axiom, The truth is important.

It matters to me that what I believe, and what I might teach others to believe, should have some evidential support, which means testing extraordinary claims to make sure they stand up.

There are as many claims about info from beyond the grave as there are religions and the fact that they all have one common element - a desire for evidence that death is not the end - is not good enough reason to take an afterlife as real.

You'll probably know that I am agnostic about an afterlife. I find it hard to imagine how it could work where I am, in any sense, 'Me'. And I doubt the claims of channelled messages. I'd want those competently tested by asking repeated somethings that would prove that they came from beyond someone's own head. And I'd think you should, too. But that's your decision.

All I can say, as you may know, Rev. and folks, is that, If there is an afterlife, it is not to be handed out by some deity as a reward or bribe to its favorite fawners. If there is one, we all get it.
Truth is very important and I don't subscribe to every message out there beyond the grave. I take it to my soul and ponder what the message is and what it's telling me. I then can determine what is or isn't true.

I believe in God and I believe in Love. Everything else is just extra. If I find that what I'm being taught is indeed in error, I know in my heart that I would be willing to find a path that does suit my soul. Until then, I just live life to the fullest and not worry about what the end will bring. I'm content to think it'll bring more happiness as my life now is happiness. If I sit and worry about what rules to break and what rules to follow, my life here will be meaningless.

I also feel that there is no diety out there handing out rewards for beliefs or who's beliefs are better or who's following whatevers rules. He gives rewards in the form of Love for just being His children. Nothing else matters.

If we take that to the afterlife with no thoughts of anything else, I'd say we'll end up in a pretty terrific place.
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Old 04-07-2010, 04:54 PM
 
Location: pensacola,florida
3,202 posts, read 4,419,792 times
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A lot of religious people live lifestyles and follow dietary codes which make them more likely to live longer and healthier lives on earth so even if there is nothing afterwards they have gotten a benefit through that.Of course many,many non religious people live the same lifestyles and eating habits so i'm not saying religion is a requirement for such things,just that many who do,would not do so if it were not part of their religious beliefs.
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Old 04-07-2010, 07:25 PM
 
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Ancestor worship , worship of the holy host , both of them interrelated. Death and Rebirth Resurrection & Reincarnation , what are the similarities and differences ? Without a doubt the Tanak and New testament leave us with as many questions as answers , as it should be. The ancient Egyptians were more interested in Eternity than progress as we know it. One thing is for certain , worshiping YHVH and studying worthy subjects is more constructive , than being a cog in the Industrial Military Complex and a parrot of the MSM. Both of which for the most part are instruments of death.
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Old 04-07-2010, 08:10 PM
 
16,294 posts, read 28,458,168 times
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Originally Posted by AREQUIPA View Post
It helps to alleviate that fear of death. The unfortunate side- effect is to devalue this one life we have as nothing much but mental preparation for being fired out of the cannon of existence into the net of the hereafter.
And fear is the prime emotion that religion uses to keep followers from reason and rational thought. Keep them scared enough and they will continue to follow.

A former president used the same tactic to cover up his war agenda, even developing a color coded system of how scared we were supposed to be. Not much different than the bible beaters (I'm sure there are koran beaters also) and their armageddon message.

Fear controls people, a rather simple premise, and very effective. Questioning and knowledge go a long way to overcome fear, if only people would pull their head out of the sand and do so.
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