Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Closed Thread Start New Thread
 
Old 06-11-2007, 09:57 AM
 
Location: Pleasant Shade Tn
2,214 posts, read 5,560,618 times
Reputation: 561

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by robinhood View Post
Alice - Does the Jehovah's Witness use any other text other than the Bible? Also, do you believe that we are to live today by the teachings of the New Testament?

No, the bible is what we base our beliefs on. We do have alot 'bible study aids' but these are simply there to assist us in our bible study and not meant to take the place of God's Word at all. And yes, we do believe we should live our lives by the teachings of the New Testament...however, just as a side thought, the whole bible is actually of benefit to us in our daily lives. Timothy said 'all scripture is inspired of God and beneficial' and we heartily accept that.

Last edited by alicenevada; 06-11-2007 at 10:14 AM..

 
Old 06-11-2007, 10:02 AM
 
Location: Pleasant Shade Tn
2,214 posts, read 5,560,618 times
Reputation: 561
Quote:
Originally Posted by robinhood View Post
I'm not a Jehovah's Witness. I am a christian and have been, for about 20 years, since I was 12 years old, and I only use the Bible as my reference. I believe that Jesus is the son of God. But how can he be God too? That would make him his own father wouldn't it?
Hello. I saw this later and I also saw WC ROB's comment. Just so you know, I don't think such an important aspect of the nature of God would be a 'mystery'. Such a thing would make a close relationship with God very difficult since his very nature would be enigmatic. And to me, it's quite simple. Jesus is God's son. That is it. For the three or four scriptures that people use to prove that he claimed 'equality' with his Father (which, incidentally, can usually be explained by context or translation errors), there are literally hundreds that show them to be seperate. I don't believe God ever intended man to think of him as a 'trinity' and that is the reason there has been so much controversy over this doctrine over the centuries.

Last edited by alicenevada; 06-11-2007 at 10:15 AM..
 
Old 06-11-2007, 12:41 PM
 
Location: Hot, Humid Texas
485 posts, read 1,644,390 times
Reputation: 261
Quote:
Originally Posted by alicenavada View Post
Timothy said 'all scripture is inspired of God and beneficial' and we heartily accept that.
Yes, I agree here. We make references to the Old Testament. I just know of some christian friends of mine who actually live by certain scriptures they've picked out of the Old Testament. They are things that people of my church don't live by since we follow the New Testament. Wow, just from what I've read here it sounds like my church's beliefs and yours don't differ very much. Our church doesn't have organization in the sense of a governent head. Each individual congreagtion has its elders and deacons, and that is it. There is no headquarters somewhere that all of the congregations are connected to.
 
Old 06-11-2007, 06:07 PM
 
Location: Somewhere along the path to where I'd like to be.
2,180 posts, read 5,408,026 times
Reputation: 829
Quote:
Originally Posted by alicenavada View Post
Yes, you are right. The Catholic church was there at an early time. But by the 3rd century, professed Christians had adapted so much Greek philosphy into their teachings and traditions, there was little similarity to the congregations in bible times. I have made a personal study of the search that mankind made for God during those times and can honestly say that it is one of the darkest times in history. Christianity strayed so far from Christ's teachings and such horrible things were done in the name of religion. And that confusion and mayhem continued for centuries. Even 'the reformation' did not solve the problem, though there were may people who were truly trying to please God. Of all the sects and scisms that developed, there were many men who were working from 'pieces' of truth but fear of death prevented them from moving forward with their knowledge. History tells it all. It was impossible for there to be an organized society of true worshipers at this time because the large churches squashed anything they considered 'threatening'.

Yes, the truth of God's word was preached in small groups. Jehovah would never have allowed it to die entirely but fear of man prevented it from taking hold during those times. I think the anabaptists, for instance, were a zealous group who honestly wanted to please God but they too turned to violence eventually. I think more out of frustration than anything else.
Alice, you're not addressing some other points I've brought up. For example, one being the fact that John stated there were many things Jesus did that were not recorded. It also stands to reason, by extension, that Jesus said and taught other things that we can't read about in the Bible. So that very fact alone should cause you to realize that there were perhaps teachings in the early church that are not spoken of in the Bible, but which were passed down through tradition. I've asked you on several occasions to cite your references for what you believe regarding how the early church became corrupted, but you still haven't done so. Please, tell me where you are getting your information from.
 
Old 06-11-2007, 06:09 PM
 
Location: Somewhere along the path to where I'd like to be.
2,180 posts, read 5,408,026 times
Reputation: 829
Robinhood, thank you for your kind words above in your response to me.
 
Old 06-12-2007, 07:17 AM
 
Location: Pleasant Shade Tn
2,214 posts, read 5,560,618 times
Reputation: 561
Quote:
Originally Posted by robinhood View Post
Yes, I agree here. We make references to the Old Testament. I just know of some christian friends of mine who actually live by certain scriptures they've picked out of the Old Testament. They are things that people of my church don't live by since we follow the New Testament. Wow, just from what I've read here it sounds like my church's beliefs and yours don't differ very much. Our church doesn't have organization in the sense of a governent head. Each individual congreagtion has its elders and deacons, and that is it. There is no headquarters somewhere that all of the congregations are connected to.

I don't want to mislead. We do have a 'World Headquarters' in Brooklyn NY that takes the lead in the publishing work and a 'governing body' that oversees the organization itself. They keep track of our progress all over the world and this location is where donations go that keep the work going. But each congregation does have its own body of elders and we also have 'circuit overseers' that visit each congregation every few months and 'district overseers' that oversee the activity of a larger area. It's all ver well-arranged, I think and helps keep us united worldwide. Usually the circuit and district overseers are wonderful speakers and we get the privelidge of hearing them give talks at our twice-yearly circuit assemblies and annual district conventions that you've probably seen.
 
Old 06-12-2007, 08:14 AM
 
Location: Pleasant Shade Tn
2,214 posts, read 5,560,618 times
Reputation: 561
Quote:
Originally Posted by WCRob View Post
Alice, you're not addressing some other points I've brought up. For example, one being the fact that John stated there were many things Jesus did that were not recorded. It also stands to reason, by extension, that Jesus said and taught other things that we can't read about in the Bible. So that very fact alone should cause you to realize that there were perhaps teachings in the early church that are not spoken of in the Bible, but which were passed down through tradition. I've asked you on several occasions to cite your references for what you believe regarding how the early church became corrupted, but you still haven't done so. Please, tell me where you are getting your information from.

I'm not sure how this applies, which is why I didnt address it. Do you think Christ contradicted himself w/ these other sayings? I believe the bible was kept in tact by God's holy spirit and anything that may or may not have been included was simply due to it not being necessary to the guidance of Christians. It is incomprehensible for me to believe that there are things that the 3rd century church magically 'knew' that the earliest congregations did not. They followed Jesus' teachings specifically and did not stray from them at all and there is actual historical evidence that the early church DID adapt Greek philosophy to their teachings very soon after its conception.

You need proof that things were changed? I would think that you read alot of Religious history before your decision to become Catholic and knew most of this already. Anyway, here are some things to consider and the books from which they're taken:

As foretold in the scriptures, apostasy had already taken hold to some extent before the end of the 1st century. (Acts 20:30, 2 Tim 2: 16-18) So Christians at that time had literally two ways to go: hold fast to the teachings of Christ or gravitate to the path of compromise in the world at that time.

The Story of Civization: Part III-Caesar and Christ-describes how the church took over religious customs and forms common in pre-Christian, pagan Rome in order to appease the masses and 'acclimate' them to Christianity.

Professor Elaine Pagels speaks often in her book Adam, Eve, and the Serpent about this decline, citing texts and historical documents of the times. She mentions the direct difference between these pagan religious beliefs and those of the Christian message.

The Crucible of Christianity by Wolfson,describes the influx of "philosophically trained gentiles" into the Church. This is where the Trinity and other terminology came from. The early Christians did not believe this, according to historians, and fought the movement. The Council of Nicaea of 325 b.c.e shows that the bishops themselves fought against it. And the book The Celts-The People Who Came Out of the Darkness discusses the pre-Christian history of the idea of immortality of the human soul and its variations throughout pagan religions.

The Agony of Christianity by spanish scholar Miguel de Unamuno discusses the history of this doctrine and also points to the fact that the early Christians believed in 'ressurection of the flesh' (such as in Lazarus' case) and not in the Greek Platonic manner of immortality.

The Church also retreated from the general ministry of all Christians (as discussed in Romans and 1 Peter) to the exclusive priesthood and hierarchy that developed in Christendom. The book Historia de la Iglesia Catolica or History of the Catholic Church admits that there was no distinction initially between bishops and presbyters but that over the years this changed and bishops became more important superintendants who possessed 'supreme priestly authority'. Emperor Constantine began the forward-marching trend in which those of authority in the church and the ruling class became mixed. The book The End of Christendom by Malcolm Muggeridge made an interesting point when it said : "You might even say that Christ himself abolished Christendom before it began by stating that his kingdom was not of this world-one of the most far reaching and important of all his statements."

Other books that talk about the changes of first century Christianity and what followed:

The Columbia History of the World
The Search for the Christian Doctrine of God-R.P.C Hanson
The Oxford Dictionary of Popes
The Age of Faith-Will Durant

I would never be so wordy if you hadnt asked for references. But your own personal study will show you when the differences came in and if you further research the history of Christianity, you will see where these movements were rebelled against by individual groups.
 
Old 06-12-2007, 08:34 AM
 
69 posts, read 447,790 times
Reputation: 54
I was born as one of Jehovah's Witnesses but as I grew older I became uncomfortable with the atmosphere of control that existed in the kingdom halls. I think many of them are really good people, I just don't believe that that religion is "the truth" anymore based on my personal experiences.
 
Old 06-12-2007, 08:54 AM
 
Location: Pleasant Shade Tn
2,214 posts, read 5,560,618 times
Reputation: 561
Michigan Man,

I've heard alot of people say that after they've made the decision to leave the organization. They tried to explain it to me but I guess I am not the one to talk to because I truly don't see it. I have never felt, even when I was questioning things and researching other religions, that anyone tried to control me. Actually, if anything, I felt that they were almost too gentle with me. I wanted someone to tell me I was wrong or right but no one would! I wanted to be challenged! It never happened.

I have always felt like I was the only one who controlled me. And my knowledge of the bible and my relationship with God made most decisions pretty clear. So I guess you could say it was really my 'bible trained conscience' that controlled me, actually.
 
Old 06-12-2007, 03:24 PM
 
Location: Somewhere along the path to where I'd like to be.
2,180 posts, read 5,408,026 times
Reputation: 829
Alice, what is the pillar and foundation of truth?

P.S. I didn't say I was Catholic.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Closed Thread


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top