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Old 05-30-2010, 04:22 PM
 
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This is too mean. If Campbell responds to the measurement of 14 billion year old light question with anything similar to "God created light that was already on its way to Earth (or other such malarky)", I'm subscribing to Last Thursdayism.

 
Old 05-30-2010, 05:19 PM
 
Location: Somewhere out there
9,616 posts, read 12,884,280 times
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Default A GORE™-ee mess, to be sure!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Campbell34 View Post
Now, at the top of Mt. Ararat they have discoverd the Ark of Noah, and it was found on the very mountain where the Bible said it landed. Soon, the world will see the Ark.

.....based on [the bible], I believe the wolrd has existed for about 13,000 years.
Really, I love it when Tom makes this kind of absolute prediction. Sets him up for the inevitable "Kah-Thuddo"!

As for his pronouncement of a 13,000 year old (let's allow him +/- 200 years, OK?), well, that one's been absolutely debunked and corrected, so no point in arguing, right? Let him believe whatever; he's in no mood to be corrected by the truth.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafius View Post
You know Tom! I sometimes get the distinct impression that you really are a troll.
(snipped)

"Then how do you come to the conclusion for YOUR date being accurate?"
Quote:
Originally Posted by Campbell34 View Post
The explorers who deny it's the Ark, have not even been to the site.

Of course, neither have the current explorers. Else why are they asking for credible scientists (and according to their own website have as of yet apparently found none willing to associate themselves with such blatant Charlatanism) and want to return there, with your generous donations of course, to expose and document it as The Ark? Why indeed.

This is yet another case of Tom's persistent Gratutious Over-Reaching Exaggerations. I think we need an acronym for this, because it's become so common for Tom now.

GORE™?
Hey: I like it! anyone else?

And it should be obvious they wanted to discover the Ark for their own personal glory.

Quote:
Oh yeah; unlike the current CTP (Chinese Theme Park) project leaders. Ever seen a credible scientific website like this one, anyone?:

Noah's Ark Search - Home Page

or this...

Miles Cooley : eCards : Noah's Ark

or this...

noahsarksearch.com sold for $5800 USD | Noah's Ark Search - Home Page (http://www.statinternet.com/domain/noahsarksearch.com - broken link)

(note that noahsarksearch.net is maintained by HIDDENSERVER.com. Hmmm...)

Finally, this interesting discussion, rife with logic and Ken Ham's personal brand of loonyism:

Dinosaurs on the Ark: the Creation Museum
(a great read, BTW...)

But enough of this constant amusement; it's back to Tom's intriguing dialog, and ongoing GORE™...
Thankfully, God allow Christians of faith to find it. Can you tell me, what do you believe that large structure is?

Quote:
Answer: What "large structure"? They haven't shown us one yet! Only their assumptive statements and a rather bad video from years ago! GORE GORE GORE run amok.
And how did it get there? And I don't have to fight the good fight, I only have to believe what I see with my own eyes. I suspect, you will have to believe something else to continue to support your belief system.

And any decendents from the Ark would be very technical people. And they would have hundreds of years to perfect their trade.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Campbell34 View Post
My very last sentence states. I believe the earth to be about 13,000 years old. And I base that on the Biblical account. I can't say it is 13,450 years, or 12,280 years. Yet as a ballpark figure, I believe it to be around 13,000 years. In the six days of creation some believe these were 24 hour days. I do not. In the New Testament, it states that one of God's days are equal to 1000 years. So based on that alone, I believe Gods creation took 6,000 years. And then you would have to add to that.
So we have to suffer transient revisionism as to the length of the day, huh? Either God can warp time and space (the MAGIC solution), or our day isn't a day either. The bible was quite clear: a current 24 h day is the same then as now. To claim otherwise is to be a fundy who modifies the truth to fit the fable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lifertexan View Post
This post is so laughable on so many counts.

(rflmn has shrunk it into convenient point form...)

1. You automatically label people you very likely don't have a clue about as trustworthy because you want to believe them;

2. dismiss disagreement within your own ranks on the basis they are jealous and untrustworthy.

3. The only basis for this is you want to believe in what one side tells you.

4. if ... one Christian group is lying about another Christian group,then what makes you think the other group is any more trustworthy?

5. If one group is capable of deceit,what makes you confident the others aren't as well?

6. That "large" structure could be anything.A herders hut, a hoax, anything. What it is not PROVEN to be is the ark.

You are now officially not worth paying attention to.
(My apologies for editing your excellent post, lifer; I just wanted to re-iterate and focus on some of your best points.)

Well now, to be honest, yours is not a new conclusion here. It's officially held by many. We just enjoy countering the absurd, the impossibe and the wildly irritating. As well, we may illustrate the dangers of such literalism to others who are perhaps sitting on a fence and are in perilous danger of developing a predictable Pavlovian response to biblical literalism.

So... my advice? Just sit back and enjoy the ongoing comedy. It's priceless!
 
Old 05-30-2010, 06:32 PM
 
1,883 posts, read 2,991,116 times
Reputation: 598
Quote:
Originally Posted by rifleman View Post

Well now, to be honest, yours is not a new conclusion here. It's officially held by many. We just enjoy countering the absurd, the impossibe and the wildly irritating. As well, we may illustrate the dangers of such literalism to others who are perhaps sitting on a fence and are in perilous danger of developing a predictable Pavlovian response to biblical literalism.

So... my advice? Just sit back and enjoy the ongoing comedy. It's priceless!

It is a comedy.Slapstick at that.My problem is I come into discussions like this with the expectation that the all parties(including myself) are engaging in the debate honestly,even if they misunderstand some issues.So when I run across someone that I become convinced is not participating from an honest viewpoint,it is disappointing,to say the least.And I don't for one minute believe that Campbell believes his nonsense about the pyramids being built a mere 240 years after the flood.No intelligent person could.He gave out information he didn't fully think through,and now has had an "uh-oh" moment when he realizes what his post means.But instead of looking at the info honestly,he falls back into a mode in which the deciding factor is "what do I already believe" rather than "what does the evidence point to".I think he knows full well that to claim that 8 to 10 of Noah's descendants could have created a nation that could build the pyramids 240 years after the flood is bull hockey.He just can't bring himself to face it,because what he has already decided he believes says something different.So instead we get this complete bullcrap stuff from him rather than honest ideas.

So from now on I guess I just sit back and laugh at his nonsense rather than hope he posts something rational,factual, and accurate.

There is,however,the positive point you bring up,in that reasonable people wondering about biblical literalism and fundies will read this and get an eyeful of the nonsense that occurs when you go down that road.There can be no better deterrent from fundamentalism than to let reasonable people see it's adherents in action.People of this caliber are one of the reasons I left evangelicalism.
 
Old 05-30-2010, 08:10 PM
 
7,628 posts, read 10,951,305 times
Reputation: 498
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asheville Native View Post
I bet you can, but that proves nothing as your 'evidence' is a nothing but a collection of short stories, fables, urban legends, and some absurdly outlandish stuff, and some porn also.

We hear the term "bibilical scholar" which really means one that can prove anything, anything at all, by selective quote of snippets and out of context passages. The words are in there, they just need to be arranged to provide anything you want to prove.

I also have a book, and can "prove" anything I chose to with my book also, but that doesn't provide any validity to my proof either.

Want to know what my book is?
Spoiler
a dictionary


Well, if you live in a fantasy your Book can prove anything. Yet if your Book is filled with facts, and those facts can be tested and proven. Then we have gone beyond fantasy. The Bible tells us the Ark of Noah landed on Mt. Ararat. It now appears the Bible was correct. What claims has your book made? And can your book be proven by historical discovery as we see the Bible being proven. If the Bible was only a collection of urban legends, we would not be having people returning from Mt. Ararat asking others now to go back with them to see the Ark of Noah.
 
Old 05-30-2010, 08:17 PM
 
3,614 posts, read 3,493,553 times
Reputation: 911
Quote:
Originally Posted by Campbell34 View Post
Well, if you live in a fantasy your Book can prove anything. Yet if your Book is filled with facts, and those facts can be tested and proven. Then we have gone beyond fantasy.
By golly, the Harry Potter books are filled with lots of facts! London exists! It's a real place. So is the prime minister. Harry Potter books must be 100% real and literal.

You understand the problem, right? That each claim must stand on its own evidence--and more importently, that some verifiable factual information in a book doesn't make the entire book completely accurate.

You are getting that, right? I don't need to make that any more clear, right?

Quote:
The Bible tells us the Ark of Noah landed on Mt. Ararat.
No it doesn't.

Quote:
It now appears the Bible was correct.
And no, it hasn't. Any structure on top of this volcano has not been shown to be "The Ark." The only people claiming it are those with a significant and vested interest in showing it to be.

Quote:
And can your book be proven by historical discovery as we see the Bible being proven.
Science and History in the Bible
False testament: archaeology refutes the Bible's claim to history
Newsvine - The Bible as History: How God Got It Wrong (http://iarnuocon.newsvine.com/_news/2007/05/31/747732-the-bible-as-history-how-god-got-it-wrong - broken link)

My goodness. How did the Word of God become so inaccurate all of a sudden?

Quote:
If the Bible was only a collection of urban legends, we would not be having people returning from Mt. Ararat asking others now to go back with them to see the Ark of Noah.
[citation needed]
 
Old 05-30-2010, 08:24 PM
 
7,628 posts, read 10,951,305 times
Reputation: 498
Quote:
Originally Posted by rifleman View Post
Really, I love it when Tom makes this kind of absolute prediction. Sets him up for the inevitable "Kah-Thuddo"!

As for his pronouncement of a 13,000 year old (let's allow him +/- 200 years, OK?), well, that one's been absolutely debunked and corrected, so no point in arguing, right? Let him believe whatever; he's in no mood to be corrected by the truth.







So we have to suffer transient revisionism as to the length of the day, huh? Either God can warp time and space (the MAGIC solution), or our day isn't a day either. The bible was quite clear: a current 24 h day is the same then as now. To claim otherwise is to be a fundy who modifies the truth to fit the fable.



(My apologies for editing your excellent post, lifer; I just wanted to re-iterate and focus on some of your best points.)

Well now, to be honest, yours is not a new conclusion here. It's officially held by many. We just enjoy countering the absurd, the impossibe and the wildly irritating. As well, we may illustrate the dangers of such literalism to others who are perhaps sitting on a fence and are in perilous danger of developing a predictable Pavlovian response to biblical literalism.

So... my advice? Just sit back and enjoy the ongoing comedy. It's priceless!





No there is no transient revisionism in the length of a day rifleman. The Bible makes very clear that a day can be considered 24 hours in mans time, or it can be 1,000 years in Gods time. This was established long before we were born rifleman. So you can't blame this on any recent fundy trying to modify the truth.

II Peter 3:8 "But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that (ONE DAY) is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day."
 
Old 05-30-2010, 08:46 PM
 
5,463 posts, read 9,605,446 times
Reputation: 3555
Quote:
Originally Posted by Campbell34 View Post
The Bible tells us the Ark of Noah landed on Mt. Ararat. It now appears the Bible was correct.
That's quite a statement you're making there. There has yet to be anything to conclusively prove NOAH'S ARK is on Mt. Ararat in Turkey, apart from pure speculation. Your current desire for the Ark to be there is NOT based on the Bible, but is based purely on what a group (or groups) of people have claimed and have shown with an undetermined video and a few questionable photos that have not been verified.. How do you know these people claim is correct? Because they claim to be Christians? Anyone can make that claim. That's a whopping amount of faith you're clinging to. You know what they say about "blind faith".

And how do you know the Earth is only 13,000 (= or -) years old? Because the Bible says a day is like 1000 years? You do realize that was only to illustrate man's reckoning of time in comparison an eternal time, don't you? If the writers had said a billion years, it would've had no meaning to anyone else. If we go by what you claim, then we might as well conclude that the entire universe is whatever can be seen with the naked eye.
 
Old 05-30-2010, 09:46 PM
 
16,294 posts, read 28,451,212 times
Reputation: 8383
Quote:
Originally Posted by Campbell34 View Post
It was not just rain that help to flood the earth. Rain alone would not be able to accomplish this. Genesis 7:11 tells us. (THAT ALL THE FOUNTAINS OF THE DEEP BURST FORTH), and the windows of the heavens were opened.

There are many examples of numerous dinosaur skeletons being found together in deposits. Consider the link below.

Dinosaur herd buried in Noah’s Flood in Inner Mongolia, China

Dinosaur footprints found in China

We also have examples of dinosaur foot prints together with human foot prints, yet believers in evolution simply say they are all fakes, and everyone who presents such evidence are all liars.
Sorry Tom, the sites and your statement are utter nonsense, but I said elsewhere you were searching and will find some nutjobs site to support your absurdities, and you didn't let me down, you found it. (or did you already have it bookmarked?)

Are you also a card carrying member of the Flat Earth Society?

Or you are doing one hell of a job of trolling everyone along
 
Old 05-31-2010, 07:13 AM
 
7,628 posts, read 10,951,305 times
Reputation: 498
Quote:
Originally Posted by NightBazaar View Post
That's quite a statement you're making there. There has yet to be anything to conclusively prove NOAH'S ARK is on Mt. Ararat in Turkey, apart from pure speculation. Your current desire for the Ark to be there is NOT based on the Bible, but is based purely on what a group (or groups) of people have claimed and have shown with an undetermined video and a few questionable photos that have not been verified.. How do you know these people claim is correct? Because they claim to be Christians? Anyone can make that claim. That's a whopping amount of faith you're clinging to. You know what they say about "blind faith".

And how do you know the Earth is only 13,000 (= or -) years old? Because the Bible says a day is like 1000 years? You do realize that was only to illustrate man's reckoning of time in comparison an eternal time, don't you? If the writers had said a billion years, it would've had no meaning to anyone else. If we go by what you claim, then we might as well conclude that the entire universe is whatever can be seen with the naked eye.






We know the Ark is on Mt. Ararat because the Bible told us it landed there. In the past when others have doubted the accuracy of such Biblical statements, time and historical discovery always reveals the Bible as being correct.

When the Bible tells us a 1,000 years is equal to one of God's days, that has nothing to do with a comparison to eternal time. The 1,000 years is required not only to understand God's time in creation, yet also to understand God's Biblical prophecies.
 
Old 05-31-2010, 07:33 AM
 
7,628 posts, read 10,951,305 times
Reputation: 498
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asheville Native View Post
Sorry Tom, the sites and your statement are utter nonsense, but I said elsewhere you were searching and will find some nutjobs site to support your absurdities, and you didn't let me down, you found it. (or did you already have it bookmarked?)

Are you also a card carrying member of the Flat Earth Society?

Or you are doing one hell of a job of trolling everyone along




For some people historical evidence will always be ignored, and dismissed. Or consider it absurdities. And such people will have to spend their lifetimes calling all of this mounting evidence fake, and eveyone else that presents it, nutjobs and liars.

Dinosaurus and People Together
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