Noah's ark found on mt. Ararat in eastern turkey (bible, quote, faith)

[Rafius]

Originally Posted by ACEsydney

How in the .... was Noah even able to get them all on-board? Who went and got the penguins from Antarctica? The kangaroos from Australia? The polar bears from Canada/Alaska? Lemurs from Madagascar?

He has actually answered this one. The answer he gave was basically......it was all done by magic. Noah didn't have to collect the animals, Yahweh sent the animals TO the Ark.

As for the other long outstanding questions...you can bet your last cent they those answers will involve magic too.

[Asheville Native]

Originally Posted by ACEsydney

Another ignored question... Why no answer to this?

Just one in a loooooooooooooooooong list of questions he has avoided, for the simple reason he hasn't found a website put up by some loony tunes nut job to support his position...... yet

[Fullback32]

Originally Posted by ACEsydney

Another ignored question... Why no answer to this?

Well, there's more important things to discuss like Ica Stones, El Toro figurines and relief sculptures on Cambodian shrines, dontcha know. That's enough proof for you. No need to discuss the logic or physics of it all.

[Fred314X]

Originally Posted by Fullback32

Well, there's more important things to discuss like Ica Stones, El Toro figurines and relief sculptures on Cambodian shrines, dontcha know.

To say nothing of the woman who just got fired from a New York bank for being "too hot," teabaggers and the end of the world scheduled to occur next December.

[Campbell34]

Originally Posted by lifertexan

I guess the supposed discoverer of the figurines admitting he created the whole hoax doesn't qualify as debunking.Geez,what exactly does it take to get through the thick skulls of some people?The guy behind it all admitted it was fake!

I noticed you did not leave any link. It appears you guys say a lot of things here, yet often you do not leave any information to back up your claims.

Why is that?

[Campbell34]

Originally Posted by ACEsydney

Another ignored question... Why no answer to this? He still hasn't addressed the questions about the logistics of fitting millions of organisms on a boat, and keeping them alive for over a year.
How in the .... was Noah even able to get them all on-board? Who went and got the penguins from Antarctica? The kangaroos from Australia? The polar bears from Canada/Alaska? Lemurs from Madagascar?

What did they all eat? Did you know blue whales eat around 5 tons of krill a day?! I can't imagine fitting all of that into such a small space!

So, let's all persist that he answers those questions. I'm really curious. Every time someone asks him about these things he just ignores the question.

I don't have all the answers. And the Bible does not adress every detail. Yet Scripture has never been proven wrong. So why should I doubt it now? Science does not have all the answers either, yet science has often been mistaken on many things. And yet you believe in science until it is proven wrong? Why not the Bible?

PS. Blue whales, and marine life were not taken on board the Ark. So you need not worry about such. If Scripture had given us all the details of what occured, I would be more then happy to adress those questions. Yet all I know at this point, is that the Bible told us the Ark was a reality, and the event did occur. And we now know that the Ark is located on the top of Mt. Ararat, and we have still shots and video of it today. And soon, others will be viewing the Ark as well. And they will also confirm it's reality.

[rifleman]

Originally Posted by Campbell34

I don't over reach rifleman,

(ROTFLMAO)

...and most of the time I provide links that back up my claims.

No, you just continue to re-post the same tired stuff that, when we go and honestly look, we find just more utterly unsupported trash. Just because there's a "link" does NOT make it true, Tom. I hope you know that.

Having said that, if I post a link to an accredited scientific journal, at least you can be very much assured that it's been vetted by other professionals whose professional reputation is on the line.

Often you only provide personal beliefs based on your personal bias

[WRONG],

and personal opinions.

Yes, I do have those, based on my career years of professional scientific research, and the attendant necessity to be honest and thorough whenever I do research. That part's proven. Q: How many peer-reviewed technical papers have you published, Tom?

You base you beliefs on your "prayed for a job and the phone rang" experience and level of purely ambiguous evidence. I base mine not only on good research techniques that took years to learn and hone, but also on the acceptance of my results by a very large scientific community, and on the subsequent successful use of my findings, and those of other honest scientists, in the field. Without any problems.

So... take you pick, folks.
_________________________

You keep telling us all of this evidence has been debunked, yet you can never provide us with any scientifice review to make your case.

Wow! It's just great when you make statements like this one. all by themselves, they make our point about YEC denialism. Fact is: We've all seen the debunkings, and I even provided several links back a few posts regarding in the Delk hoax. You know, where Delk admitted they'd been carved?

As well, that other website I linked, a Christian Geologist's Organization with their professional reputation on the line, clarified that they did not wish to be sullied by association with a bunch of loonoid claims. They correctly note that in the Paluxy River basin, there's not one single other "found" hominid footprint. So what did your guy do? Fly in but, place one foot down, and then get instantly consumed?

You don't see the illogic of this do you? The utter implausibility? I didn't think so.

The El Toro collection was submitted for testing by Charles Hapgood in 1968, and the results returned were.

Sample 1. 1640 BC
Sample 2. 4530 BC
Sample 3. 1110 BC

They were tested again in 1972 by Arthur Young. The Masca lab returned results of 2700 BC

They were tested again by B.C. Video whch was attempting to debunk the collection. Yet when the lab did the testing the dinosaur figurine date came back 1500 BP. As a result, those who tried to debunk the collection stated the lab must of been mistaken.LOL

rifleman, this collection has only been debunked in your own mind. And until such a time comes that you can produce a real scientific review of this collection. Such debunking will only be found in your own mind.

Hardly. You know, of course, that later X-Ray fluorescence studies, that overcome all the known problems with that once-nascent method, have not been done. The original samples were not handled properly, and were thus contaminated. A bunch of church-goers scooping things up with their muddy hands, and then storing them in their previously used sandwich baggies, then in their sun-baked, hot and humid backpacks, and not in a pressurized temp-controlled nitrogen environment, will return nonsense information.

Just as we can anticipate if/when the CTP guys get up to their Ark site and handle their samples the same day. (Note: if they do handle them correctly, the results will speak for themselves. Best to pre-contaminate them, huh?)

These errors in technique are easily proven by subjecting the same specimen to the same test but with different or indifferent handling. But you ignore those criticisms of the careless and unprofessional handling of the original samples in almost all of these cases.

Instead, you just yowl that it's us who won't believe the evidence in front of us. Only when it's poorly done, and they refuse to allow a correct re-evaluation.

So we offer to do it right, but of course, those requests are universally denied. As you know.

But please... do go ahead: re-blurt if you wish. I'll stick to my "opinions". Yep, they are that, but at least they're based on fact, not fervent wishful thinking.

Consider the link below.
World Site of Dinosaur Figurines of Mexico: evidence that dinosaurs and humans coexisted!

Originally Posted by ACEsydney

Another ignored question... Why no answer to this? He still hasn't addressed the questions about the logistics of fitting millions of organisms on a boat, and keeping them alive for over a year.
How in the .... was Noah even able to get them all on-board? Who went and got the penguins from Antarctica? The kangaroos from Australia? The polar bears from Canada/Alaska? Lemurs from Madagascar?

Answer: Tom will never answer these direct and specific questions, unless cornered, at which time he reverts to the MAGIC solution. That's OK: I'd accept his personal belief in MAGIC. But he continually tries to invoke scientific logic where it fails him every time.

He knows too well that an honest and rational discussion of how Noah got them all there would flop on it's impossible face.

Or he comes back with utter that Noah didn't have to get the whales onboard. Why, Tom? All their food, the krill, or herrings or mackerel or salmon, would all die within a week or two, because of the de-salinization of their ocean home. But you won't discuss that, because you know it's true.

What did they all eat? Did you know blue whales eat around 5 tons of krill a day?! I can't imagine fitting all of that into such a small space!

So, let's all persist that he answers those questions. I'm really curious. Every time someone asks him about these things he just ignores the question.

I agree. The only way to force him back into the corner where he can;t get out without an honest response. The only honest response would be, in my opinion that the noah's Ark flood was a technical impossibility. If it did happen, it had to be MAGIC, but such MAGIC has never been seen since then. (well, except in his phone call...) but I do not find any scripture that states God's work and involvement is completely over and done here.

Originally Posted by Rafius

He has actually answered this one. The answer he gave was basically......it was all done by magic. Noah didn't have to collect the animals, Yahweh sent the animals TO the Ark.

As for the other long outstanding questions...you can bet your last cent they those answers will involve magic too.

Well then, as suggested by ACEsydney, why not let's us "insist"?

Originally Posted by Campbell34

I noticed you did not leave any link. It appears you guys say a lot of things here, yet often you do not leave any information to back up your claims.

Why is that?

Why should we provide the same links over and over, Tom? It's plain that you won't or can't read them. It's all been debunked over and over. Check your post history over the past 18 months on the Ark topic.

Originally Posted by Campbell34

I don't have all the answers. And the Bible does not adress every detail. Yet Scripture has never been proven wrong.

[WRONG] So why should I doubt it now? Science does not have all the answers either, (never said we did, but we do have some answers, don't we?) yet science has often been mistaken on many things.

Agreed, but the predominance is that mostly it gets it right, or eventually does through peer rejection, or open review and questioning.

You saying that if and when a system of careful trial and error makes one mistake, which they openly admit to, then we should dismiss all of it? That your perspective and argument, Tom. Well then, by that basis for dismissals, you also have to let go of the Bible, given all it's contradictions!

(and now, you'll bluster that I never provide links to the bible's contradictions and errors, right?)

And yet you believe in science until it is proven wrong? Why not the Bible?

(Because the Bible has been proven wrong. So many times. Science not so much, and then we go out and find the right answer.)

PS. Blue whales, and marine life were not taken on board the Ark. So you need not worry about such.

Then they all died, obviously. Howzcome we see them all now then, with Absolutely No Evolvin' !!! signs everywhere on the Ark?

And what about the requisite salvation of the world's plant life?

(You didn't do that little experiment I suggested with some cheap tropical fish, did you? Simply toss them into some nice cold, storm-tossed ocean water. I knew you were afraid of even a tiny little experiment...)

If Scripture had given us all the details of what occured, I would be more then happy to adress those questions. Yet all I know at this point, is that the Bible told us the Ark was a reality, and the event did occur. And we now know that the Ark is located on the top of Mt. Ararat, and we have still shots and video of it today. And soon, others will be viewing the Ark as well. And they will also confirm it's reality.

Let's see here:

first you said this:

Originally Posted by C34

I don't over reach rifleman, and most of the time I provide links that back up my claims.

and then this:

Originally Posted by C34

and we now know that the Ark is located on the top of Mt. Ararat,

"Know"?????Supporting links that they have, indeed, "found" the Ark up there? GORE™ for sure! Your exaggerations go well beyond simple prediction; it's now a well-documented and established ploy which you then deny in hopes no-one will notice. Yet we all do, and 'ref' it often.

I'd be considering some professional help, Tom.

Any other comments from the class here? Anyone? Anyone?
_____________________

GORE™ = Gross Over-Reaching Exaggerations, now an official Tom34 trademark, hence the ™.

[rifleman]

As a follow-up to ACEsydney's thoughtful suggestion..

Originally Posted by ACEsydney

So, let's all persist that he answers those questions. I'm really curious. Every time someone asks him about these things he just ignores the question.

I've assembled just four (4) easy questions for Tom. I'd like to suggest we take ACE's idea and all of us hold him to his best answer, along with his beloved links.
__________________________________

1. How many independent and unique species have been carefully counted on this planet to date (ignoring extinct or as-yet-undiscovered species even though they are finding new ones at about 10/month...). Then, conservatively, take only 50% of that as your answer.

2. Was the critical marine environment (temp, salinity, density, established currents, etc.) altered in any way by the addition of over 10X the known volume of all the world's oceans with fresh water? Or, if it was MAGICALLY salty rain, what then of all the fresh water rivers and lakes?

3. Would dark, lightless icy inundation under 5 miles of water (and huge hydraulic pressures) of whatever salinity for over 18 months kill off or alternately sustain all the world's newly submerged vegetation?

4. How many of any species (i.e.: just one male and one female? A dozen of each gender? More?) does it take, in your opinion, to successfully re-establish their world-wide re-population, especially when they are dropped off in a totally hostile environment to them, let's say 5 - 10,000 miles from home, with the global flood still in recession?
___________________________________________

You can choose to only answer these one at a time. I promise not to go "postal" on your polite and well-thought out and supported answers. Nothing more than one short paragraph for any of your answers. I promise!

But let's all insist that you, being the prime defender here, answer these obviously sticky problems for Arkist theory. OK?

(PS: you other guys will likely have your own thorny questions. When Tom answers these simple four, we can move on.)

[Asheville Native]

Originally Posted by Campbell34

I noticed you did not leave any link. It appears you guys say a lot of things here, yet often you do not leave any information to back up your claims.

Why is that?

You leave links, but they don't contain any evidence to support your fantasy either, just the blogs of like minded loons.

[Asheville Native]

Originally Posted by Campbell34

I don't have all the answers. And the Bible does not adress every detail. Yet Scripture has never been proven wrong.

Damn, you mean the earth really is flat? That's what the scripture says, so it must be so, right.

Or perhaps your little book of fantasy, is a boat load of all the stuff that would have collected in the bottom of the ark