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Old 07-19-2015, 02:10 PM
 
Location: Kansas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zepheyr View Post
Did anyone actually read the OP?
I read it but I didn't understand where OP was coming from. Are we talking about the Jewish faith? If so, that would be why I didn't understand or agree with it.

I'm not Christian, was until I learned some facts, but I believe in God - good, and Devil - evil. That is what I was taught and that is what I have seen over my 60 years of life. We didn't call him/it Satan or Lucifer. And, we always and I still do, call God the Father, God. I don't do it with a little "g" or by leaving out a letter in the middle because I might offend someone.

I see the Bible as guidance but it has a "theme" about it. A feeling where once you get "it", "it" all comes together and you don't have a need to quibble over words or meaning. A "theme" of right and wrong, good and bad. God is everywhere.

Whatever makes sense to you all.
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Old 07-24-2015, 06:25 AM
 
Location: Southwestern, USA, now.
21,020 posts, read 19,211,093 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rotagivan View Post
As a metaphor Satan is G()D exploring Its different facets.
Finally, thank you. Only one power, after all.

Quote:
In the same way, Satan is the self doubt in individual humans, sometimes/often
projected outwards in accusation of other humans.
In this context it appears that Satan still has a 'dirty job' in relation to humans,
but for all appearances enjoys the job and does compete and want followers and even worshipers.
Sounds a lot like ego.
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Old 07-25-2015, 07:34 PM
 
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Cherubim | The amazing word Cherubim: meaning and etymology

Cain and his Amalek Worshiping the Serpent.


ח וַיָּבֹא, עֲמָלֵק; וַיִּלָּחֶם עִם-יִשְׂרָאֵל, בִּרְפִידִם. 8 Then came Amalek, and fought with Israel in Rephidim. ט וַיֹּאמֶר מֹשֶׁה אֶל-יְהוֹשֻׁעַ בְּחַר-לָנוּ אֲנָשִׁים, וְצֵא הִלָּחֵם בַּעֲמָלֵק; מָחָר, אָנֹכִי נִצָּב עַל-רֹאשׁ הַגִּבְעָה, וּמַטֵּה הָאֱלֹהִים, בְּיָדִי. 9 And Moses said unto Joshua: 'Choose us out men, and go out, fight with Amalek; tomorrow I will stand on the top of the hill with the rod of God in my hand.' י וַיַּעַשׂ יְהוֹשֻׁעַ, כַּאֲשֶׁר אָמַר-לוֹ מֹשֶׁה--לְהִלָּחֵם, בַּעֲמָלֵק; וּמֹשֶׁה אַהֲרֹן וְחוּר, עָלוּ רֹאשׁ הַגִּבְעָה. 10 So Joshua did as Moses had said to him, and fought with Amalek; and Moses, Aaron, and Hur went up to the top of the hill. יא וְהָיָה, כַּאֲשֶׁר יָרִים מֹשֶׁה יָדוֹ--וְגָבַר יִשְׂרָאֵל; וְכַאֲשֶׁר יָנִיחַ יָדוֹ, וְגָבַר עֲמָלֵק. 11 And it came to pass, when Moses held up his hand, that Israel prevailed; and when he let down his hand, Amalek prevailed. יב וִידֵי מֹשֶׁה כְּבֵדִים, וַיִּקְחוּ-אֶבֶן וַיָּשִׂימוּ תַחְתָּיו וַיֵּשֶׁב עָלֶיהָ; וְאַהֲרֹן וְחוּר תָּמְכוּ בְיָדָיו, מִזֶּה אֶחָד וּמִזֶּה אֶחָד, וַיְהִי יָדָיו אֱמוּנָה, עַד-בֹּא הַשָּׁמֶשׁ. 12 But Moses' hands were heavy; and they took a stone, and put it under him, and he sat thereon; and Aaron and Hur stayed up his hands, the one on the one side, and the other on the other side; and his hands were steady until the going down of the sun. יג וַיַּחֲלֹשׁ יְהוֹשֻׁעַ אֶת-עֲמָלֵק וְאֶת-עַמּוֹ, לְפִי-חָרֶב. {פ} 13 And Joshua discomfited Amalek and his people with the edge of the sword. {P} יד וַיֹּאמֶר יְהוָה אֶל-מֹשֶׁה, כְּתֹב זֹאת זִכָּרוֹן בַּסֵּפֶר, וְשִׂים, בְּאָזְנֵי יְהוֹשֻׁעַ: כִּי-מָחֹה אֶמְחֶה אֶת-זֵכֶר עֲמָלֵק, מִתַּחַת הַשָּׁמָיִם. 14 And the LORD said unto Moses: 'Write this for a memorial in the book, and rehearse it in the ears of Joshua: for I will utterly blot out the remembrance of Amalek from under heaven.' טו וַיִּבֶן מֹשֶׁה, מִזְבֵּחַ; וַיִּקְרָא שְׁמוֹ, יְהוָה נִסִּי. 15 And Moses built an altar, and called the name of it Adonai-nissi. טז וַיֹּאמֶר, כִּי-יָד עַל-כֵּס יָהּ, מִלְחָמָה לַיהוָה, בַּעֲמָלֵק--מִדֹּר, דֹּר. {פ} 16 And he said: 'The hand upon the throne of the LORD: the LORD will have war with Amalek from generation to generation.' {P}וַיְהִי בִּשְׁנַת שָׁלֹשׁ, לְהוֹשֵׁעַ בֶּן-אֵלָה מֶלֶךְ יִשְׂרָאֵל, מָלַךְ חִזְקִיָּה בֶן-אָחָז, מֶלֶךְ יְהוּדָה. 1 Now it came to pass in the third year of Hoshea son of Elah king of Israel, that Hezekiah the son of Ahaz king of Judah began to reign. ב בֶּן-עֶשְׂרִים וְחָמֵשׁ שָׁנָה, הָיָה בְמָלְכוֹ, וְעֶשְׂרִים וָתֵשַׁע שָׁנָה, מָלַךְ בִּירוּשָׁלִָם; וְשֵׁם אִמּוֹ, אֲבִי בַּת-זְכַרְיָה. 2 Twenty and five years old was he when he began to reign; and he reigned twenty and nine years in Jerusalem; and his mother's name was Abi the daughter of Zechariah. ג וַיַּעַשׂ הַיָּשָׁר, בְּעֵינֵי יְהוָה, כְּכֹל אֲשֶׁר-עָשָׂה, דָּוִד אָבִיו. 3 And he did that which was right in the eyes of the LORD, according to all that David his father had done. ד הוּא הֵסִיר אֶת-הַבָּמוֹת, וְשִׁבַּר אֶת-הַמַּצֵּבֹת, וְכָרַת, אֶת-הָאֲשֵׁרָה; וְכִתַּת נְחַשׁ הַנְּחֹשֶׁת אֲשֶׁר-עָשָׂה מֹשֶׁה, כִּי עַד-הַיָּמִים הָהֵמָּה הָיוּ בְנֵי-יִשְׂרָאֵל מְקַטְּרִים לוֹ, וַיִּקְרָא-לוֹ, נְחֻשְׁתָּן. 4 He removed the high places, and broke the pillars, and cut down the Asherah; and he broke in pieces the brazen serpent that Moses had made; for unto those days the children of Israel did offer to it; and it was called Nehushtan.

Curses and Blessings.
Jesus is the School Master.

14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent: 'Because thou hast done this, cursed art thou from among all cattle, and from among all beasts of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life.

15
And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; they shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise their heel.' {S}
17 And unto Adam He said: 'Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying: Thou shalt not eat of it; cursed is the ground for thy sake; in toil shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life.
18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field.
3 And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the LORD.

Cain tilled the Ground which was cursed just as the serpent was cursed to crawl on its belly
And brought forth the fruit of a curse to the Lord?

4 And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering;

Message to cain
7 If thou doest well, shall it not be lifted up? and if thou doest not well, sin coucheth at the door; and unto thee is its desire, but thou mayest rule over it.'


Jesus is the Word.
9 Therewith bless we God, even the Father; and therewith curse we men, which are made after the similitude of God.

10 Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be.

11 Doth a fountain send forth at the same place sweet water and bitter?

12 Can the fig tree, my brethren, bear olive berries? either a vine, figs? so can no fountain both yield salt water and fresh.

13 Who is a wise man and endued with knowledge among you? let him shew out of a good conversation his works with meekness of wisdom.

Then looking at Genesis the waters are divided.

Last edited by pinacled; 07-25-2015 at 08:10 PM..
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Old 10-05-2015, 10:48 AM
 
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God cannot create evil....it is against his very nature. Free will that he gives to man and to the angels creates evil. Ezekiel 28 makes me think Satan was a fallen cherub....not a fallen angel.
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Old 10-05-2015, 10:52 AM
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Debbie Du View Post
God cannot create evil....it is against his very nature. Free will that he gives to man and to the angels creates evil. Ezekiel 28 makes me think Satan was a fallen cherub....not a fallen angel.
Isaiah 45:7 (KJV)

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
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Old 10-05-2015, 11:38 AM
 
Location: USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kittykate View Post
Satan and his angels were made my God to tempt us and Gods angels? Even the Bible says God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone.
Plus God is purely good, purely love and 100% holy so he cannot create evil. Evil is only an absence of God or distortion of His truths.
What exactly is your definition of evil? God ordered the beheading and disemboweling of hundreds of helpless women, children and babies. Is that an act of love? Or an act of evil?

Numbers 31
Joshua 6
Ezekiel 9
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Old 10-05-2015, 12:28 PM
 
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But Jesus called satan a liar and a murder "from the beginning". Certainly a liar and murderer cannot be working as God's agent, lest God is complicit in satan's lies and murders. Or was Jesus off his rocker?
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Old 10-05-2015, 09:12 PM
 
Location: USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
But Jesus called satan a liar and a murder "from the beginning". Certainly a liar and murderer cannot be working as God's agent, lest God is complicit in satan's lies and murders. Or was Jesus off his rocker?
I notice that it is the author of Gospel John who put these words into Jesus' mouth many decades after Jesus was executed. Jesus wrote nothing himself so we don't really know his personal opinion on this question. You of course contend, as a declaration of your faith, that the four Gospels which you on faith have declared to be valid, contain verbatim quotes made by Jesus himself. As opposed to the dozens of Gospels which written during the formative years of Christianity but were later deemed to be wishful thinking and NOT included into the canon of the NT. You have every right to believe whatever it pleases you to believe. But making claims as to the truth of your beliefs by quoting from your beliefs as if they were true is an example of circular reasoning, and does not serve as valid evidence to substantiate your point.
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Old 10-05-2015, 10:21 PM
 
Location: US
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yeshuasavedme View Post
The other thread is too long to wade through, and it supposes that Satan is a cherub named Lucifer, putting together Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28 passages.
Lucifer is not a name, and means light bearer. Lest anyone tell you that
Lucifer means day star, they err, biblically, as Jesus Christ is the Day Star,
and He also will give the "Day Star" to His own.
2Pe 1:19
We have
also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as
unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the
day star arise in your hearts:
Rev 2:28
And I
will give him the morning star.Rev 22:16
I Jesus
have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the
root and the offspring of David, [and] the bright and morning star.

Isaiah 14:

12How have you fallen from heaven, the morning star? You have been cut down to earth, You who cast lots on nations.




הִלֵּל
Hillel (Hebrew name)
Hillel (Hebrew name)






הִלֵּל פ' פיעל
to praise, to glorify, to exalt
to praise, to glorify, to exalt
to praise, to glorify, to exalt









יְלֵל שֵם ז'


wailing, howling, keening


However, הֵילֵל בֶּן שָּׁחַר, hilel ben shakhar is (poetic) morning star, Venus.




Isaiah 14:

12How have you fallen from heaven, the morning star? You have been cut down to earth, You who cast lots on nations.




הִלֵּל
Hillel (Hebrew name)
Hillel (Hebrew name)






הִלֵּל פ' פיעל
to praise, to glorify, to exalt
to praise, to glorify, to exalt
to praise, to glorify, to exalt









יְלֵל שֵם ז'


wailing, howling, keening


However, הֵילֵל בֶּן שָּׁחַר, hilel ben shakhar is (poetic) morning star, Venus.





- Translation

Quote:

Satan was always just what he is, and has never, ever been called a fallen
angel or a rebel Cherub, and has never been "kicked out of Eden", nor has he
taken up rebellion against God. He does what he was created to do, serving as a
tempter/tester/of men and angels, who then serves as prosecuting attorney before
the throne against the saints, to accuse them and "get the spoils", or else to
accuse them and get to "sift them like wheat", so as to try to get the spoils.
Everyone gets tested and is tried and proved before the regeneration of the
heavens and the earth. The rejects are cast aways, and Satan and his angels get
to torment them in the Lake of Fire forever.

There is much ancient writing in Enoch and in Jewish writings that show that
there is a host of Satans, with one chief, and that they were made exactly to do
what they do and they serve God by doing it -and they get the spoils of the
rejects, for themselves to torment in the lake of fire.

Satan was never in Eden nor the Garden...

Satan in Hebrew merely means hinderer, one who blocks the way...And can be applied to man, messengers or G-d...
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Old 10-05-2015, 10:23 PM
 
Location: US
32,530 posts, read 21,849,930 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
But Jesus called satan a liar and a murder "from the beginning". Certainly a liar and murderer cannot be working as God's agent, lest God is complicit in satan's lies and murders. Or was Jesus off his rocker?
Well, if Jesus was in fact speaking of man's nature as a Satan, or Yetzer HaRa...
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