Can I get an honest answer about Christianity's desired role in society? (America, church)

[rifleman]

On these various R & P and Christian threads, we hear a number of consistent Christian perspectives:

1) The lack of school prayer or devotional time is a key to our society's various ills.

2) God's word is absolute, and He can account for all the world's troubling events, many of which clearly point to a rapidly approaching End-Times.

3) Those without spiritual belief (the correct one, BTW) will surely get their just rewards and punishments at that time. Christians simply wish to "save" the unbelievers from this fate.

4) Science has confused many issues, and seeks to force falsehoods on the population. It should be managed, and the school science curriculum should be revised and corrected to reflect God's involvement in Creation.

5) A Christian country would be a happier country. God is on our side, as per George Bush's exact statement.

So OK. Fine. NOW: Here's the question for which I'd like an honest answer:

If Christians were in control of all government and social institutions, would you then enforce all of these beliefs and behavioral disciplines?

Would you Federally mandate school prayer, as you have in fact tried to do locally in so many instances?

(When I was in elementary school (about 1955 or so), such an edict was briefly enacted, and my atheist homeroom teach became very adept at speed-praying The Lord's Prayer. He got through it in about 4 - 5 seconds, without missing a word. We kids all laughed....)

Would you summarily delete that bothersome little First Amendment Clause about the establishment of a Federal religion?

Would you then be selective about the chosen Federal religion, actively suppressing, say, the Jewish faith, or the Apache, or the nation of Islam?

Would you then outlaw atheism, which you so often identify as ethically bereft and essentially evil?
_________________________________

I'd really like to know what it is you offer us if you were to become our leaders and mentors
.
NOTE: this is not a troll-thread. If you're too ashamed to state your real, heart-felt desires, and would rather sneak them in insidiously, or you just silently really wish they were in place, or would vote for a political representative that openly espoused them (Sarah Palin?), why not come out of the closet with them? You are, after all, protected here by your online anonymity.

[ptsum]

It's been more than an hour and no response..... how unusual.

[Fullback32]

Originally Posted by rifleman

Would you then be selective about the chosen Federal religion, actively suppressing, say, the Jewish faith, or the Apache, or the nation of Islam?

Rifleman, to this I would append it to also ask: If it would be one certain denomination or would all versions of a certain faith be acceptable? Would there be an exceptions list (IOW all denominations EXCEPT these ones)?

[Mr5150]

Originally Posted by ptsum

It's been more than an hour and no response..... how unusual.

Could it be that the OP is filled hyperbole and stereotypes?

The founders of our country were mostly Christian and they had free reign to decide how it would be. Look to the late 18th thru the mid 20th century for a picture of what society would be like. Per the OP. He assumes all this negative stuff as if this country would be run by Christian Taliban. No. It would simply be as it was before 1964-when school prayer was banned.

America is odd in that we are now a minority ruled country. 4% of America's population is atheist yet they have been sucessful in banning religious expression in the public square and in public education.

What has happened in the last 40 years is that we have laws being passed that restrict what people can say or do.

Basically less stuff is allowed and that is not entirely bad. Racism, sexism and protecting the rights of minorities is good. OTOH religious people have been restricted. Crosses and Menorahs banned in the public square. That sorta thing.

Now you know why no one is jumping on this thread

[Thomas R.]

What threads are suggesting these five things? How are they "consistent Christian perspectives" when many Christians here clearly don't believe in them? Until you can answer that I guess I'll respond with the following.

On these various R & P and atheist threads, we hear a number of consistent atheist perspectives:

1) Society would be better if "In God We Trust" was removed from the money and "Under God" was removed from the Pledge.

2) Science is the only valid quest for truth, it can or will account for everything that happens.

3) Those without spiritual belief are surely living a more honest and happy life.

4) Religion has confused many issues and seeks to force falsehoods on the population. It should be kept solely private and the schools' history curriculum should be revised to correctly reflect religion's harm to society.

5) An atheist country would be a better country. Reason and history are on Atheism's side as the UN development figures for Scandinavia attest.

[GldnRule]

Originally Posted by rifleman

On these various R & P and Christian threads, we hear a number of consistent Christian perspectives:

1) The lack of school prayer or devotional time is a key to our society's various ills.

2) God's word is absolute, and He can account for all the world's troubling events, many of which clearly point to a rapidly approaching End-Times.

3) Those without spiritual belief (the correct one, BTW) will surely get their just rewards and punishments at that time. Christians simply wish to "save" the unbelievers from this fate.

4) Science has confused many issues, and seeks to force falsehoods on the population. It should be managed, and the school science curriculum should be revised and corrected to reflect God's involvement in Creation.

5) A Christian country would be a happier country. God is on our side, as per George Bush's exact statement.

So OK. Fine. NOW: Here's the question for which I'd like an honest answer:

If Christians were in control of all government and social institutions, would you then enforce all of these beliefs and behavioral disciplines?

Would you Federally mandate school prayer, as you have in fact tried to do locally in so many instances?

(When I was in elementary school (about 1955 or so), such an edict was briefly enacted, and my atheist homeroom teach became very adept at speed-praying The Lord's Prayer. He got through it in about 4 - 5 seconds, without missing a word. We kids all laughed....)

Would you summarily delete that bothersome little First Amendment Clause about the establishment of a Federal religion?

Would you then be selective about the chosen Federal religion, actively suppressing, say, the Jewish faith, or the Apache, or the nation of Islam?

Would you then outlaw atheism, which you so often identify as ethically bereft and essentially evil?
_________________________________

I'd really like to know what it is you offer us if you were to become our leaders and mentors
.
NOTE: this is not a troll-thread. If you're too ashamed to state your real, heart-felt desires, and would rather sneak them in insidiously, or you just silently really wish they were in place, or would vote for a political representative that openly espoused them (Sarah Palin?), why not come out of the closet with them? You are, after all, protected here by your online anonymity.

Hey rifle,

You know I'm an open minded guy...so ever since I have seen one of the main debate issues in this forum (and you made mention of in you post) is the 1st Amendment...I've done a lot of searching to educate myself. I wanted to know what the author was REALLY trying to say...not how we twist interpretations of it to fit what we want (a tactic used by some Christians with the Bible) it to say to support our agenda.

In my search I found this:: Evidence for America's Christian Heritage - Top Ten Proofs

I know, I know...it's a Christian site...but it gave me info I hadn't previously known...if it's actually true. If it is true...I have a WHOLE different perspective on it. Could you please take the time to check it out and respond.

BTW...if the Christians came to sovereign power...The FIRST thing they would do is add a 10% tithe line to the 1040 Form.

[Mr5150]

Originally Posted by Thomas R.

What threads are suggesting these five things? How are they "consistent Christian perspectives" when many Christians here clearly don't believe in them? Until you can answer that I guess I'll respond with the following.

On these various R & P and atheist threads, we hear a number of consistent atheist perspectives:

1) Society would be better if "In God We Trust" was removed from the money and "Under God" was removed from the Pledge.

2) Science is the only valid quest for truth, it can or will account for everything that happens.

3) Those without spiritual belief are surely living a more honest and happy life.

4) Religion has confused many issues and seeks to force falsehoods on the population. It should be kept solely private and the schools' history curriculum should be revised to correctly reflect religion's harm to society.

5) An atheist country would be a better country. Reason and history are on Atheism's side as the UN development figures for Scandinavia attest.

Look to pre 1990 China, North Korea and the Soviet Union for your answer. They were/are atheistic countries. Whereas Scandinavia is secular with freedom of religion.

[GldnRule]

Originally Posted by Mr5150

Could it be that the OP is filled hyperbole and stereotypes?

The founders of our country were mostly Christian and they had free reign to decide how it would be. Look to the late 18th thru the mid 20th century for a picture of what society would be like. Per the OP. He assumes all this negative stuff as if this country would be run by Christian Taliban. No. It would simply be as it was before 1964-when school prayer was banned.

America is odd in that we are now a minority ruled country. 4% of America's population is atheist yet they have been sucessful in banning religious expression in the public square and in public education.

What has happened in the last 40 years is that we have laws being passed that restrict what people can say or do.

Basically less stuff is allowed and that is not entirely bad. Racism, sexism and protecting the rights of minorities is good. OTOH religious people have been restricted. Crosses and Menorahs banned in the public square. That sorta thing.

Now you know why no one is jumping on this thread

Your post speaks truth...but it isn't why the thread hasn't "caught fire".

rifleman is a brilliant (and straight-up fair minded I might add) man...his post makes one need to give careful consideration to give a proper response.

Deep questions require deep thought...some may be hesitant to tackle it. Simple questions are answered quickly by many. My guess is he would prefer few responses that were well thought and presented in a manner conducive to productive debate...than dashed off "fightin' words" by many.

Hope my fellow Believers make a decent account of themselves...this is a prime opportunity to address/debate current issues...I'm anxious to see some legit responses that teach me something.

It beats the heck out of ?s that require you to "check out" your Jewish buddy in the locker room at the gym.

[OhioanKid]

Originally Posted by GldnRule

BTW...if the Christians came to sovereign power...The FIRST thing they would do is add a 10% tithe line to the 1040 Form.

That's what the Church of England did, wasn't it? If my memory is cooperating, that's what happened, at least...

However, considering you're saying "Christian" like everyone else I find that hard to believe. How are 30,000 different denominations going to decide who gets how much of it and how it'll be split up and who gets more rights and who less and how to represent one group and how to another and which beliefs should be enforced and which suppre-

You get the point. It is impossible to get Christians to agree on anything.

[JerZ]

Originally Posted by ptsum

It's been more than an hour and no response..... how unusual.

Well, that's because IRL, at least, the overwhelming majority of Americans does not want the five things postulated in the OP. So roughly, this not being a specifically fundamentalist site, I wouldn't expect there to be an overwhelming majority of people on here, either, who feel that way.

The OP's question is basically why people want the five things he stated. Since not that many people know why--because they don't want those things--there isn't a huge flood of answers.

It's pretty simple.

Honestly, not a single Christian person I know IRL believes in the principles stated or has those types of agendas, and I know a lot of Christians...not just because this country is majority Christian but because I happen to live in Conservativeville USA.