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You're the one who offers no proof. Do you deny that the church(not just Catholics) supported slavery for thousands of years? Would you like for me to post the scriptures in both the OT and NT which condoned and accomodated slavery? How about the requirement of baptism? My son's three children were each one baptized by the Presbyterians at age six months even now that most no longer require it.
Surely you know about "Thou Shalt Not Suffer A Witch To Live" and the witch hunts which endured across centuries. Do you deny the Crusades?
George W. Bush did indeed say that god told him to invade Iraq.
The sermons about hell fire and brimstone are a no brainer...that was still going on all through my childhood. I've personally heard dozens of them...some at funerals. You know...using a death to get to young people and other heathens.
Now what about the churches owning more real property than any other entity except the government itself? Are you not aware that one of every six on this planet are starving or suffering from the complications of malnutrition?
Do you doubt that the Vatican owns hundreds of billions of dollars worth of art, jewelry and other preservations it acquired over the centuries?
You sir are the one in denial.
On the contrary, slaves in the Church were to be treated humanely and some people even argued that it should be abolished entirely -- and it was.
Okay, so 40-100,000 people were killed in witch-hunting, according to Wikipedia:
Now compare that to the other numbers in that third link. 110,000,000 by Russia? That's a little larger than what you cited, which killed, at most, 300,000.
Whether God told George Bush to do so is irrelevant; you cannot blame God or the Church for that, especially considering Bush wasn't Catholic. Why do I feel like you're ignoring what I say? And I never denied what you said he said anyway.
What the Vatican owns is also irrelevant, since you're forgetting it runs charitable organizations and donates more than anything or anyone else on Earth:
Let it go. I've stated my position on all aspects of (snip, yadda yadda)
Oh, gotcha! So we're supposed to listen to pretty much worldwide condemnation of something that's never exactly specified, and we may not answer; we're supposed to let you have your say and then "let it go." Wowsers, hon. In that whole long list that I snipped above, you forgot "controllers" and "people who believe my way is the only way," or were those covered?
My goodness, so religion is a terrible thing that kills people but atheism is...well, something that says "What I say is right, you must believe what I believe (and you must throw away any belief that isn't mine) and you must listen to me and then sit down and shut up"? This is the Utopia everyone's talking about?
I stand by my observation that control is control, power is power and that if a power-hungry, "it's all about me" person wants to control, he or she will use whatever's there, whether it's religion or not, to do so. In your case: what you "used" to shut me up was a direct command without any basis for giving the command ("let it go"). Basically that translates to: "I have my stance and I don't have to back it up with anything specific, and you MUST follow my stance." Same thing as those you're condemning here...no? So obviously this isn't exclusive to the religious. Correct?
Oh, gotcha! So we're supposed to listen to pretty much worldwide condemnation of something that's never exactly specified, and we may not answer; we're supposed to let you have your say and then "let it go." Wowsers, hon. In that whole long list that I snipped above, you forgot "controllers" and "people who believe my way is the only way," or were those covered?
My goodness, so religion is a terrible thing that kills people but atheism is...well, something that says "What I say is right, you must believe what I believe (and you must throw away any belief that isn't mine) and you must listen to me and then sit down and shut up"? This is the Utopia everyone's talking about?
I stand by my observation that control is control, power is power and that if a power-hungry, "it's all about me" person wants to control, he or she will use whatever's there, whether it's religion or not, to do so. In your case: what you "used" to shut me up was a direct command without any basis for giving the command ("let it go"). Basically that translates to: "I have my stance and I don't have to back it up with anything specific, and you MUST follow my stance." Same thing as those you're condemning here...no? So obviously this isn't exclusive to the religious. Correct?
Oh, gotcha! So we're supposed to listen to pretty much worldwide condemnation of something that's never exactly specified, and we may not answer; we're supposed to let you have your say and then "let it go." Wowsers, hon. In that whole long list that I snipped above, you forgot "controllers" and "people who believe my way is the only way," or were those covered?
My goodness, so religion is a terrible thing that kills people but atheism is...well, something that says "What I say is right, you must believe what I believe (and you must throw away any belief that isn't mine) and you must listen to me and then sit down and shut up"? This is the Utopia everyone's talking about?
I stand by my observation that control is control, power is power and that if a power-hungry, "it's all about me" person wants to control, he or she will use whatever's there, whether it's religion or not, to do so. In your case: what you "used" to shut me up was a direct command without any basis for giving the command ("let it go"). Basically that translates to: "I have my stance and I don't have to back it up with anything specific, and you MUST follow my stance." Same thing as those you're condemning here...no? So obviously this isn't exclusive to the religious. Correct?
Snip Snip Yadda Yadda??
I've stated my position on all aspects of faith, religion, beliefs, religious organizations, the ministry, missionaries, religious schools, the brainwashing of infants and small children, free loading southern preachers, those who claim jesus or god or the holy spirit has appeared to them, those who pray, those who pray without fasting or annointing their hair, foot washers, snake handlers, Merry War lye drinkers, miracle workers, rain dancers, offering skimmers, TV evangelists, bare faced liars and Jesus Freaks.
Selah
Religious beliefs, i.e. superstition, mythology, god worship, Jesus worship, Buddhists, holy cows, etc. will not stand the test of time. No god worship ever has. It's days are numbered.
Counting the individual Pacific Isles and their minimum inhabitants there are more than 4000 different ways to worship a deity. Shucks...until about 75 years ago there were some tribes continuing to teach their young cannibilism as a religious belief. You can teach an infant or small child anything. It knows nothing and has no power to reason.
No one said getting rid of religions will solve all world's problems. But, one thing is for sure, religion is the kind of things that we want to get rid of.
You wouldn't believe the life I've had. Moved from a dirt farm in west Tennessee in 1944 with my family who was relocating to the Oak Ridge, TN Manhatten project. Hired in at the Oak Ridge Gaseous Diffusion Plant(ORGDP) in 1952. While I was developing a 41 year long career at the plants there I was excused(with seniority continuance) for serving in the military in 1957/58 and then was accomodated for six years in the TN national guard from which I was discharged in 1964 as a tank commander on an M-48 Medium Patton Tank crew.
At the time of my retirement from Martin Marietta Energy Systems I had been the operations supervisor in computer operations in one of the 50 largest mainframe computing centers in the world. At our peak we had 18,000 sq. ft. of floating floor area with $66 million worth of data processing equipment installed(according to inventories controlled by the department of energy(DOE.) To give you an idea of the scope of our center it required about 350 tons of refrigeration to cool the equipment and our annual power bill(peak) from the TVA was slightly above $500,000.
We installed Oak Ridge's first super computer...the Cray XMP1/4 which was upgraded to a Cray XMP2/4 the next year. I was the project manager of that effort. We worked with all disciplines of engineering and all of the plant's maintenance departments to do the year long planning and procurement activities associated with the total installation of that system. The site prep cost approximately $2 million and the system cost the government $8.5 million.
Two of the young men who assisted in the installation of that system managed the installation of this one:
When I retired I moved to a place on Watts Bar lake where I presently reside. I have three children...two with masters degrees and one with an associate's. The one with the least education is a project director for the DOE earning six figures. I have eight grandchildren and their average IQ...at least six of them, is 126. I do not need a life. I am enjoying screwing around with what's left of this one. LOL
Last edited by Melvin.George; 05-01-2010 at 04:04 PM..
You wouldn't believe the life I've had. Moved from a dirt farm in west Tennessee in 1944 with my family who was relocating to the Oak Ridge, TN Manhatten project. Hired in at the Oak Ridge Gaseous Diffusion Plant(ORGDP) in 1952. While I was developing a 41 year long career at the plants there I was excused(with seniority continuance) for serving in the military in 1957/58 and then was accomodated for six years in the TN national guard from which I was discharged in 1964 as a tank commander on an M-48 Medium Patton Tank crew.
At the time of my retirement from Martin Marietta Energy Systems I had been the operations supervisor in computer operations in one of the 50 largest mainframe computing centers in the world. At our peak we had 18,000 sq. ft. of floating floor area with $66 million worth of data processing equipment installed(according to inventories controlled by the department of energy(DOE.) To give you an idea of the scope of our center it required about 350 tons of refrigeration to cool the equipment and our annual power bill(peak) from the TVA was slightly above $500,000.
We installed Oak Ridge's first super computer...the Cray XMP1/4 which was upgraded to a Cray XMP2/4 the next year. I was the project manager of that effort. We worked with all disciplines of engineering and all of the plant's maintenance departments to do the year long planning and procurement activities associated with the total installation of that system. The site prep cost approximately $2 million and the system cost the government $8.5 million.
Two of the young men who assisted in the installation of that system managed the installation of this one:
When I retired I moved to a place on Watts Bar lake where I presently reside. I have three children...two with masters degrees and one with an associate's. The one with the least education is a project director for the DOE earning six figures. I have eight grandchildren and their average IQ...at least six of them, is 126. I do not need a life. I am enjoying screwing around with what's left of this one. LOL
How secularly wonderful.
You and Vic seem to make a really good team..do you guys know each other?
If the vibe you put forth in your posts is indicative of how well those vocational experiences did at helping you find peace in your life...I submit that it appears to have left you lacking. But then, it's tough to realize you are missing something you never experienced. Believers have the secular PLUS...garr-own-teeed net gain.
As a side note--Props to you for your service in the Army. Thank-you sincerly...much respect on that. One Vet to another.
That's my wish...that the Atheists could experience the vibe (that they mistakenly often label "that warm, fuzzy feeling") and resulting joy and contentment that ONLY real faith in God can give you. THAT is the "good" that comes from God (not religion--GOD). People can't give it to you (not even family), works can't give it to you, deeds can't give it to you, wealth can't give it to you...MOF NOTHING in this world can give it to you. He is the only source...because HE IS THE SOURCE...of EVERYTHING.
You and Vic seem to make a really good team..do you guys know each other?
If the vibe you put forth in your posts is indicative of how well those vocational experiences did at helping you find peace in your life...I submit that it appears to have left you lacking. But then, it's tough to realize you are missing something you never experienced. Believers have the secular PLUS...garr-own-teeed net gain.
As a side note--Props to you for your service in the Army. Thank-you sincerly...much respect on that. One Vet to another.
That's my wish...that the Atheists could experience the vibe (that they mistakenly often label "that warm, fuzzy feeling") and resulting joy and contentment that ONLY real faith in God can give you. THAT is the "good" that comes from God (not religion--GOD). People can't give it to you (not even family), works can't give it to you, deeds can't give it to you, wealth can't give it to you...MOF NOTHING in this world can give it to you. He is the only source...because HE IS THE SOURCE...of EVERYTHING.
Just curious...do you think it's just coincidence that god is a man or could it be because only men wrote in the bible?? You know...the alpha male thing.
The bible in fact gives a man the right to thrash his wife if she dares not to subjugate herself to his wishes and whims. Strange that all the bible beliefs subjugated women and slaves. Now most churches are putting that part to the side...kinda like the way they're trying to deny the hell thing.
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