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Old 05-17-2010, 09:20 AM
 
Location: Oxford, England
1,266 posts, read 987,185 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yeshuasavedme View Post
That YHWH gave the race of Adam one hundred twenty years to repent, before He sent the flood, through the preaching of Noah and Methusaleh, is not an "interpretation"; it is just plain fact of what is written.
No, it's not a fact. It's an interpretation. The Book of Jasher is pseudepigrapha written centuries after Genesis, and it too is based on a non-contemporary interpretation of the text.

Quote:
Originally Posted by yeshuasavedme View Post
And the 120 years granted were also a wisdom parable, with dual meaning, for 120 Jubilee years for the Adam spirit to continue before His Spirit and face, on the earth.
The doubling of the words of prophecy spoken by God's prophets is a theme well known and understood and applied to that which is spoken, by all scribes who serve to expound the Word of God, and that includes the NT authors, who doubly apply that which is written to that which is, speaking by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.

God will not always strive with the Adam spirit, and his "days" are numbered at 120 [Jubilee] years [6 millenniums], from the time of the beginning of the preaching of Noah and Methusaleh.
The eighth day is the theme of the New Beginning, the regeneration of the heavens and the earth, which God gave the oracle of, in the "Eighth day" celebration, to be observed until its fulfillment, after the seven day Feast of Tabernacles.
The oracle of the Adam seed cut off in the eighth day [120 Jubilees from the time Noah began preaching] is the sign of circumcision given to the male offspring of AbraHAm, to wear in their flesh as that oracle, from the eighth day of their coming into their being.
```

YHWH Elohym has shortened and diminished the lives of the Adam seed, beginning from the days of Yoktan, after the fall of the tower of Babel. From the days of Yoktan's birth, the Adam seed began to die at much younger ages than those born before the flood, and that shortening/diminishing began then, and settled to what it has been since Moses wrote that we our days are numbered at threescore and ten, but that if we live more they are only years beset with trouble. -Moses himself lived to 120 and is still living in his resurrected mortal body, in Mount Zion above, with Elijah, and they two are those mortals who witnessed Christ's glory as the Son of Man come in flesh, and will return after the Church is taken out of the midst of the world, to preach Christ Jesus in the streets of Jerusalem for three and a half years.


Jasher 7:19 These are the generations of Shem; Shem begat Arpachshad and Arpachshad begat Shelach, and Shelach begat Eber and to Eber were born two children, the name of one was Peleg, for in his days the sons of men were divided, and in the latter days, the earth was divided.
And the name of the second was Yoktan, meaning that in his day the lives of the sons of men were diminished and lessened.
Your exegesis is becoming increasingly wacky. You're reading a bunch of nonsense into rather straightforward texts that were never meant to be read this way.
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Old 05-17-2010, 09:48 AM
 
2,981 posts, read 4,463,596 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel O. McClellan View Post
No, it's not a fact. It's an interpretation. The Book of Jasher is pseudepigrapha written centuries after Genesis, and it too is based on a non-contemporary interpretation of the text. Your exegesis is becoming increasingly wacky. You're reading a bunch of nonsense into rather straightforward texts that were never meant to be read this way.
The writings are not interpretations, they are just the "True/Correct/straight/upright" record, as the word Jasher is interpretated to mean.

Internal investigation and correlation of Moses' Pentateuch with Jasher proves that Moses wrote Jasher, as a redacted history of the patriarchs, including his own, which are redacted even more for His histories in the Pentetuech. Joshua completed it; and only by having Jasher as a companion to Moses and Joshua, Judges, and Psalms, can one get the full story of the history of the patriarchs, and understand what is being said by David in many Psalms, and by the authors of the NT who make references to those things also recorded in Jasher, but which are not recorded in the OT. Book of Jasher


Moses' record was never meant to be read without the "True/Correct" record, as a companion book, which is the history of the patriarchs and the times they lived in, from the beginning of creation to the time of the going into Canaan. After that, the histories are continued by others, and some are included in the OT, but some are lost since the destruction of the temple, as they are named in the OT, but not found.

Jasher is named, and Jasher is available to us in English.
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Old 05-17-2010, 12:16 PM
 
Location: Oxford, England
1,266 posts, read 987,185 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yeshuasavedme View Post
The writings are not interpretations, they are just the "True/Correct/straight/upright" record, as the word Jasher is interpretated to mean.
As I said before, the Book of Jasher is pseudepigraphic, late, and derivative.

Quote:
Originally Posted by yeshuasavedme View Post
Internal investigation and correlation of Moses' Pentateuch with Jasher proves that Moses wrote Jasher,
No it doesn't. Moses didn't write the Pentateuch, and the Book of Jasher is early modern at the earliest.

Quote:
Originally Posted by yeshuasavedme View Post
as a redacted history of the patriarchs, including his own, which are redacted even more for His histories in the Pentetuech. Joshua completed it; and only by having Jasher as a companion to Moses and Joshua, Judges, and Psalms, can one get the full story of the history of the patriarchs, and understand what is being said by David in many Psalms, and by the authors of the NT who make references to those things also recorded in Jasher, but which are not recorded in the OT.
Nonsense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by yeshuasavedme View Post
Moses' record was never meant to be read without the "True/Correct" record, as a companion book, which is the history of the patriarchs and the times they lived in, from the beginning of creation to the time of the going into Canaan. After that, the histories are continued by others, and some are included in the OT, but some are lost since the destruction of the temple, as they are named in the OT, but not found.

Jasher is named, and Jasher is available to us in English.
More nonsense. I don't know of a single scholar who takes it seriously. I certainly don't. There are plenty of conflicts with the Pentateuch and the story of the origins of the manuscript is clearly spurious.
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Old 05-17-2010, 07:02 PM
 
2,981 posts, read 4,463,596 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel O. McClellan View Post


More nonsense. I don't know of a single scholar who takes it seriously. I certainly don't. There are plenty of conflicts with the Pentateuch and the story of the origins of the manuscript is clearly spurious.
There are no conflicts with the Pentateuch and the Correct Record. They correlate, and Jasher sheds light on obscure passages in the Pentateuch, because Jasher was the fuller form of the history which was redacted for the Pentateuch, by Moses.

The Real Book of Jasher?
Quote:
There is little of consequence at variance with the Bible. There are some chronological features that differ, but these can usually be attributed to a textual error. Usually the error will be resolved by reading on. A later entry will fall into harmony with the Bible text. Remember that the ancient scrolls of this book were in poor condition when the book was printed in Hebrew in 1613. It is not unlikely that some numbers could get scrambled.
Numbers get scrambled in the "received text" also.

In Jasher, the mystery of Abel's prophecy is revealed, which he prophesied when Cain threatened to kill him, and Jesus called Abel "a prophet" whose blood was slain by the evil generation [of those who become children of wrath by believing the devil's lies and acting upon them].

In Jasher, we read the prophecy of Miriam, which causes her to be called Miriam the prophetess, by Moses, in Genesis.
In Jasher we read about the throne of honor/glory , that the righteous shall be raised from the dust and seated upon, which Hannah mentions in her praise psalm.
In Jasher, we read who, exactly, ran through a troop and leaped over a wall, which David sang of, in Psalm 18 and Samuel 22. In Jasher, we read of the the desperate prayers of Noah and those with him on the Ark, which David also sang of in the same Psalm, when the flood for the "ungodly" made him afraid, and he called on the LORD and the LORD answered him.

In Jasher, we read the names of the magicians Jannes and Jambres, and learn that they are the sons of Baalim.
In Jasher, we learn how it came about that Moses was married to an Ethiopian woman, which was a political alliance after he was king of Cush, where he dwelt for forty years, before going to Media. We also learn why he married so late and had such young children when he headed to Egypt [having only been married for 3 years to Zipporah], and having two young sons. We learn why one young son of Moses was not circumcised [Jethro talked him out of it], and we learn what happened to Zipporah and the two children when Aaron met Moses, and why they are later brought to Moses by the father-in-law [Moses sent them back at Aaron's scolding him for bringing them].
It goes on and on and on: page after page after page, of the history written in Jasher, sheds light on that which is redacted much, in the Pentetuech, and Moses did not need to rewrite the histories in longer form, for; "behold, it was written in the Book of Jasher"!

Anyone who really loves history and truth short changes themselves by neglecting the "Correct Record", of the "True history".

Last edited by yeshuasavedme; 05-17-2010 at 07:31 PM..
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Old 05-18-2010, 02:27 AM
 
Location: Oxford, England
1,266 posts, read 987,185 times
Reputation: 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by yeshuasavedme View Post
There are no conflicts with the Pentateuch and the Correct Record. They correlate, and Jasher sheds light on obscure passages in the Pentateuch, because Jasher was the fuller form of the history which was redacted for the Pentateuch, by Moses.
Then why are the ages for the patriarchs at their death in chapter 5 wrong?

Quote:
Originally Posted by yeshuasavedme View Post
Numbers get scrambled in the "received text" also.
They also don't get scrambled. There's no evidence whatsoever for the pristine nature of these numbers in any other manuscript, you're simply asserting that they were once right. The evidence does not support your conclusion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by yeshuasavedme View Post
In Jasher, the mystery of Abel's prophecy is revealed, which he prophesied when Cain threatened to kill him, and Jesus called Abel "a prophet" whose blood was slain by the evil generation [of those who become children of wrath by believing the devil's lies and acting upon them].

In Jasher, we read the prophecy of Miriam, which causes her to be called Miriam the prophetess, by Moses, in Genesis.
In Jasher we read about the throne of honor/glory , that the righteous shall be raised from the dust and seated upon, which Hannah mentions in her praise psalm.
In Jasher, we read who, exactly, ran through a troop and leaped over a wall, which David sang of, in Psalm 18 and Samuel 22. In Jasher, we read of the the desperate prayers of Noah and those with him on the Ark, which David also sang of in the same Psalm, when the flood for the "ungodly" made him afraid, and he called on the LORD and the LORD answered him.

In Jasher, we read the names of the magicians Jannes and Jambres, and learn that they are the sons of Baalim.
In Jasher, we learn how it came about that Moses was married to an Ethiopian woman, which was a political alliance after he was king of Cush, where he dwelt for forty years, before going to Media. We also learn why he married so late and had such young children when he headed to Egypt [having only been married for 3 years to Zipporah], and having two young sons. We learn why one young son of Moses was not circumcised [Jethro talked him out of it], and we learn what happened to Zipporah and the two children when Aaron met Moses, and why they are later brought to Moses by the father-in-law [Moses sent them back at Aaron's scolding him for bringing them].
It goes on and on and on: page after page after page, of the history written in Jasher, sheds light on that which is redacted much, in the Pentetuech, and Moses did not need to rewrite the histories in longer form, for; "behold, it was written in the Book of Jasher"!
But there are dozens and dozens of rabbinic texts of much more ancient provenance than Jasher that expound on these pericopes as well. That doesn't mean Moses wrote them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by yeshuasavedme View Post
Anyone who really loves history and truth short changes themselves by neglecting the "Correct Record", of the "True history".
Anyone who wants to find the truth should certainly take a much more critical and objective eye to the problem than this. You have no evidence of any kind to speak of that this text goes back any further than the early modern period. You simply want it to be ancient and have decided that it is. That's not loving history or truth.
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Old 05-18-2010, 04:46 AM
 
Location: England
3,250 posts, read 3,142,409 times
Reputation: 3210
You can't debate YSM using logic or the truth Daniel O, it's a waste of time, as you've just discovered.
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Old 05-18-2010, 07:36 AM
 
Location: Whiteville Tennessee
8,262 posts, read 16,369,126 times
Reputation: 10042
Well I think youre all crazy!
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Old 05-18-2010, 06:22 PM
 
2,981 posts, read 4,463,596 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel O. McClellan View Post
Then why are the ages for the patriarchs at their death in chapter 5 wrong?

.
Compared to what?
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Old 05-18-2010, 06:35 PM
 
2,981 posts, read 4,463,596 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel O. McClellan View Post

But there are dozens and dozens of rabbinic texts of much more ancient provenance than Jasher that expound on these pericopes as well. That doesn't mean Moses wrote them.

.
Absolutely not one of them is before the babylonian dispersion, which is when the manuscripts were lost, some hidden, and some burned, from the temple [and many are later than the NT, also]
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Old 05-18-2010, 06:39 PM
 
2,981 posts, read 4,463,596 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel O. McClellan View Post


They also don't get scrambled. There's no evidence whatsoever for the pristine nature of these numbers in any other manuscript, you're simply asserting that they were once right. The evidence does not support your conclusion.

.
What are you talking about? My comment was on the page link that I gave, and I commented that in the received text there are scrambled numbers, in some places -and scrambled names, in at least one. Do you not know that ? And also, the Received text and the
Greek Septuagint do not agree on "numbers" concerning ages, in several places.
Scrambled numbers in the received text can be cleared up by correlating with Jasher,anyway.
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