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Old 06-04-2010, 02:24 AM
Status: "OU sucks!" (set 12 days ago)
 
Location: Disneyland
6,314 posts, read 2,385,170 times
Reputation: 818
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
There is a HUGE difference...Civil laws make sense, whereas many religious rules (sin) are not based on logic at all....Just look at the ten commandments for instance.


YouTube - George Carlin The Ten Commandments Broken Down
George Carlin is your defense? Hilarious!

Nevertheless, whether the laws make sense to you isn't the issue. You are still controlled by the laws of society.

 
Old 06-04-2010, 07:41 AM
 
4,646 posts, read 3,307,473 times
Reputation: 1632
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryrge View Post
To KC, please just say that you are taking back your statement that infinite regress which you add to my concept of God makes my concept of God inconceivable, because I am telling you that your adding infinite regress to my concept of God does not make my concept of God, maker of everything having a beginning, inconceivable or unintelligible but it actually adds the feature of infinity in my concept of God.
You'll need to do more than just assert that I'm wrong with nothing to back it up.

Quote:
Answer this question from me:
No, there's lots of other unanswered questions to get to first.

Quote:
What you should do now is to show readers that infinite regress is not a valid concept in human discourse.
Why would I need to do that? I've never claimed it is.

My point, succinctly -

You say that it's intelligent to believe because everything intelligent needs a more intelligent creator.
I ask who the more intelligent creator of god is.
You say there doesn't need to be one, admitting your original reason to believe isn't true (since now not every intelligent thing needs a more intelligent creator).
I point out that you're now left with no valid reasons for us to think that your belief is intelligent.
You claim I'm changing the subject and ask me questions about unrelated subjects or things I've never said.

And then you claim I'm trying to distract from the subject. Funny.
 
Old 06-04-2010, 11:15 AM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
24,030 posts, read 16,677,903 times
Reputation: 9632
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
George Carlin is your defense? Hilarious!

Nevertheless, whether the laws make sense to you isn't the issue. You are still controlled by the laws of society.
Yes George was a very funny guy , and a lot smarter than you. All of his humor commented on problems with society, including religion..His bit on the ten commandments was right on the money....Many of your religious laws (sin) are oppressive, numerous, some are downright silly and many are harmful to society.......Biblical laws are violent, bigoted, revolting and many make no sense. I'll stick with modern sensible laws thank you, because I have an addiction to logic
 
Old 06-04-2010, 01:02 PM
Status: "OU sucks!" (set 12 days ago)
 
Location: Disneyland
6,314 posts, read 2,385,170 times
Reputation: 818
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
Yes George was a very funny guy , and a lot smarter than you. All of his humor commented on problems with society, including religion..His bit on the ten commandments was right on the money....Many of your religious laws (sin) are oppressive, numerous, some are downright silly and many are harmful to society.......Biblical laws are violent, bigoted, revolting and many make no sense. I'll stick with modern sensible laws thank you, because I have an addiction to logic
You're attempting to change the subject. I'll take that to mean you agree you are controlled by societal law.
 
Old 06-04-2010, 06:45 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
24,030 posts, read 16,677,903 times
Reputation: 9632
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
You're attempting to change the subject. I'll take that to mean you agree you are controlled by societal law.
Yes, I obey laws that make sense and protect society, not because I'm forced to, but because I want to...You are subject to the same civil laws as I am, and in addition to those you are expected to follow the goofy laws of your religion. Of course if you are like most of the religious you pick the laws you like and reject those that are inconvenient. I hope you haven't been doing any work on Sundays.
 
Old 06-04-2010, 07:37 PM
 
55 posts, read 36,526 times
Reputation: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
Yes, I obey laws that make sense and protect society, not because I'm forced to, but because I want to...You are subject to the same civil laws as I am, and in addition to those you are expected to follow the goofy laws of your religion. Of course if you are like most of the religious you pick the laws you like and reject those that are inconvenient. I hope you haven't been doing any work on Sundays.
So what do you do with the laws that don't make sense,break them.
 
Old 06-04-2010, 07:45 PM
 
55 posts, read 36,526 times
Reputation: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
Yes George was a very funny guy , and a lot smarter than you. All of his humor commented on problems with society, including religion..His bit on the ten commandments was right on the money....Many of your religious laws (sin) are oppressive, numerous, some are downright silly and many are harmful to society.......Biblical laws are violent, bigoted, revolting and many make no sense. I'll stick with modern sensible laws thank you, because I have an addiction to logic
How do you know that George Carlin is smarter than jimmiej,as it is pretty assumptive on your part,considering that you have never seen each other face-to-face or know what their I.Q. SCORES ARE.
 
Old 06-04-2010, 09:50 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
24,030 posts, read 16,677,903 times
Reputation: 9632
Simple deduction dear boy. I've seen most of what George has done, and read most of what jimmie has written..One uses critical thinking while the other, like many of the religious, avoids it.

Avoiding logic as your god does, is unintelligent.
 
Old 06-04-2010, 10:04 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
24,030 posts, read 16,677,903 times
Reputation: 9632
Quote:
Originally Posted by samuelouerbacker View Post
So what do you do with the laws that don't make sense,break them.
When civil laws make no sense, which is rare, I don't break them, but I have the right to protest them and attempt to have them changed....How do you protest or change a religious law such as this? You can't so most Christians just ignore it.

Quote:
Tell the people of Israel to keep my Sabbath day, for the Sabbath is a sign of the covenant between me and you forever. It helps you to remember that I am the LORD, who makes you holy. Yes, keep the Sabbath day, for it is holy. Anyone who desecrates it must die; anyone who works on that day will be cut off from the community. Work six days only, but the seventh day must be a day of total rest. I repeat: Because the LORD considers it a holy day, anyone who works on the Sabbath must be put to death.' (Exodus 31:12-15 NLT)
 
Old 06-05-2010, 12:45 PM
 
608 posts, read 277,421 times
Reputation: 30
Default KC, you are in bad faith, because I say that everything that has a beginning including intelligent beings.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KCfromNC View Post
Quote:
What you should do now is to show readers that infinite regress is not a valid concept in human discourse.
You'll need to do more than just assert that I'm wrong with nothing to back it up.



No, there's lots of other unanswered questions to get to first.



Why would I need to do that? I've never claimed it is.

My point, succinctly -

You say that it's intelligent to believe because everything intelligent needs a more intelligent creator.
I ask who the more intelligent creator of god is.
You say there doesn't need to be one, admitting your original reason to believe isn't true (since now not every intelligent thing needs a more intelligent creator).
I point out that you're now left with no valid reasons for us to think that your belief is intelligent.
You claim I'm changing the subject and ask me questions about unrelated subjects or things I've never said.

And then you claim I'm trying to distract from the subject. Funny.


KC, you are in bad faith, because I say that in my concept of God He is the maker of everything that has a beginning that everything includes intelligent beings.


You are now seeking refuge in your mantra that I say everything intelligent has a beginning, conveniently but stubbornly neglecting to mention that everything that has a beginning.



Okay, are you going to discuss with me the validity or invalidity of the concept of infinite regress which you bring up?

No, you did not bring up infinite regress?

You just brought up the idea that if God is intelligent because His creature man is intelligent that requires that God also must be made by an intelligent being, and on and on.

So, is that or is that not infinite regress?


That is what I find typical of atheists they are always after evasion when the discussion really gets serious in the search for the facts in the totality of existence.



Well, KC, you can continue in your mantra that I say that everything intelligent needs another intelligent entity to bring it into existence, hoping and thinking and assuring yourself that readers will not pay attention to what I have been saying from the very beginning of this thread, that God is the maker of everything that has a beginning, that everything includes everything intelligent that has a beginning.


When you care or have the intellectual guts to discuss with me about the validity or invalidity of the concept of infinite regress, let me know, otherwise I will not pay any attention to you any further.




To readers here, there is a greater probability that the man will go back and insist that I say everything intelligent has got to have an intelligent agent to bring him into existence, conveniently not mentioning and trusting that you readers will also not remember, that all the time from the very start of this thread I have been saying that God is the maker of everything that has a beginning and that everything includes everything intelligent.

Okay, so he KC says that I did not say that... [silly].

Well, then I am saying that now, so what is keeping him from continuing with me on the question in regard to the validity or invalidity of the concept which he brings up of infinite regress?

But no, the man has no intellectual guts when the discussion gets serious, he will go back to his mantra, which will be an infinite regress to the mantra, the ultimate one of atheists, we (they) don't know.


Ask them what exists 'before' the Big Bang, and they will state that scientists can be mistaken, besides they don't know, no one knows, or worse they will go into verbose and loose talk that nothing leads to something the universe.






Ryrge
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