Is this concept of God for myself intelligent? (mythology, church, Christian)

[dobeable]

Originally Posted by Occam's Bikini Wax

Dude, come on... spellcheck please. Most of your posts are rife with misspellings, and nearly unintelligible due to lack of proper caps and punctuation. You aren't going to convince anyone if they won't even bother to read what you post.

what i spelled the word you wrong due to a typo-wow im soooo illiterate,cop-on will ya

[Ryrge]

Originally Posted by dobeable

Ryge:

if yiu want an awnser about your OP then i think yes this is an intelligent beleif since all the material energy originates from the Supreme.

however if your going to preach eternal hell concepts then no that is most unintelligent concept-i know you havnt said anything like that yet,but you need to define your concepts-God is much more than just a creator

Thanks for your reply.


I have said several times already that my concept of God has to do with the most essential relation of God to the universe that is recognized by theists and atheists to be existing, namely, His relation to this universe which includes everything that has a beginning -- as the universe according to latest writings of physicists does have a beginning in the socalled Big Bang.

His relation to man and the whole universe, which is that of a creator.


I am so happy that you can see how my concept of God is or can be intelligent.

I want a concept of God which everyone with a good mind can see to be intelligent, that is why I go up to the highest level of what God is to man and the whole totality of existence that has a beginning.

And that to me is God as creator of everything which has a beginning.


You see, the trouble with atheists is that they harp on the features of God which some men see to be in conflict among themselves, like God's mercy and His installation of hell -- hahaha!


But even non-Christians who also believe in God like Hindus tell us that God cannot be known except by negation, and anything said about God by man is only in poor analogy.

Still analogy is better than nothing, besides we can't say anything about so many things except in analogy to what we know of ourselves, for example, our nose.


Are you an atheist?

I will say that you are one atheist who has an open mind, and you do seem to have the idea that before anything else an open mind must be kept intact and functioning, that is the ultimate priority, above even being a theist for me and an atheist for you.


Glad to come to someone with an active brain that is not blindered by self-imposed allegiance to a viewpoint that is after investigation full of inconsistencies if anyone will see the inconsistencies with an open mind.


By the way, for an example of atheists' inconsistency, consider that atheists maintain everything is from chance and without any intelligence, while they refuse to see how their nose can be in their face and not drop off if everything is from chance and there is no intelligence.

Try to put a nose in your face if your face happens to have its nose slit off accidentally, depend on chance or don't seek the help of an intelligent plastic surgeon.


Hahahaha!


Wait, wait, what about hell?

That is what Christians and many people, who believe in God or some supreme power in charge of justice for all, think it is logical for God to establish and keep in operation, so that bad guys who get away with doing nasty things to people trying to be good will get their comeuppance in the next world, i.e., that one believed to be beyond the grave.

Yes, about hell, you know I say to myself that when I get to meet with God I will talk Him out of sending me to hell, because He wouldn't be intelligent to send me there unless He is a petty vengeful tyrant without any sense of humor.

You also think about that, namely, to be able to face God with a brave but honest face if you have done nothing like killing anyone with premeditated malice.


Think of this evil which recently occurred in my land, some most wicked men killed 57 men and women and news reporters by shooting them all up with bullets, and buried them all in giant graves including their cars to cover up everything, but some guys were lucky to have escaped and reported the horrible massacre.

I don't think you will ever be such kind of evil people.




Ryrge

[dobeable]

I;m actually a theist,I beleive that God has an innumerable amount of forms and names because you cant put a limit onto God,you cant limit Him to one space in time like we are ,He is boundless,All Powerfull,omnipotent,omnipresent,All loving,Supreme controler,Supreme freind of all living entity's yet impartial to all,Supreme mystic,master of the senses,creator,maintainor and destroyer of universes,and I could go on and on-their is no limits to this supreme person,No limit to His commpassion,tolerance ,care,mercy,understanding,nobility,and Love etc.

sorry i didnt get whether you beleive in this eternal hell or not.?

[Sir Les]

God is the truth....and so I am is always...he was, he is, and he always will be...Thus that is the answer about what God is...that is the proof...that is the truth...for truth is constant!
And with truth we make....and so everything that is made by God is Good...for it contains the truth.
With out truth nothing could be made Good that was made Good.

So we have a truth...and the truth said to the soul of man and women who sinned a Great sin...And God caused them to be moved out of EDEN...and he said...."I give you everything"...and to tend and keep the Garden, and restore that which was taken in disobediance...in order to undo...it must be done...sinlessly!
And This truth said onto the souls of man and women..to live by certain laws, precepts, and covenants in order to purify the soul, the mind, the heart and the body, and the Garden...Acts 3;21, utilizing the Givens Genesis 9:3, and minding the warning Acts 10:15...not to profane anything God made clean...and I add or called Good....for they are all part of the essence of What God made Good, and blessed, and made holy!

So to profane something God made clean is error!...error creates problems!
Sin is the disobediance of God and his will...which is to make Edens as a multiplied estate...the kingdom of God is constantly Growing in size and supporters over time.
Jesus sais God has many mansions!
And so we have word God is not without more Edens...this one could be one...but not necessarily the only...and so it is expendable...but it could be saved so that we learn the truth.

As Jesus said..."they know not what they do"...So learn what is being done...that is wrong according to God, and his will and word...and correct it with the truth!

Jesus sais " to test it" to ask, to knock, to do all the things God asks of us...which isn't a burden...
Sow some seeds, and help things along.
DO it sinless as possible...yes?...omit nothing..and profane nothing God made...which he also Gave to us as plants!

Make sense to me...truth conquers Lies...truth forms sound foundations!
And with that idea in the mind...we have to understand that the system of idolic wealth and human rule, is in error of the first and second commandments of God...if they employ Money as a engraven imaged currency!

So Jesus said..."Your making a den of vipers, robbers, and thieves...while kicking it out of his fathers house...and again he sais when confronted with the same thing..(coin of engraven imaged Idol)..about the tax Of Rome,...Jesus sais to the Pharisees who asked him, to test him...Jesus says "show me the coin" (engraven)...when they produced the coin in their hands...to show Jesus...Jesus looks up and away from them and the coin, and askes them..."who's title is on the coin?"...for he did not look to see!
And they replied Caesar's...So Jesus said the right thing in reply..."Give onto Caesar what belongs to Caesar..(and hold it no more) but Give onto God what belongs to God"...(Your obediance of the laws, precepts, and covenants)..which removes, and warns about the need for the use of the engraven coin at all!
And the punishment for disobediance of God is death!...so it is written.
And they did not put down the coin or ever Give it back.

Now we stand in a system full of corruption...hatred, warfare, and ill health...while the planet is being polluted without end...and all are connected to that error because they all have some part to play in polluting it.
Which now brings about the ill health and constant death senerio...and they say it is normal!...support our murdering troops who kill poppy and marijuana Growers...(see the bent lines of sin as the constant..the Anti Christ)

But they never have tried the other road...the free road...the righteous road...the hard road.
The right road...?
Have we tested it, before we dispute it?
And those who have tested it, found a way to live, without money!

So it is possible to do...and while living for free, and becoming sinless by that act, and sharing and multiplying the givens...and we sow seeds to keep the earth producing food for all life....we are doing a service which by action proves a point of view few come to in their minds or in thier life time life...for it is the beginning of everything good!
And if more did the will of God...this world would be a paradise to live in all over the world!
Yes we can share like God...and it removes the need of money or tax...for they should not be able to tax a Gift.
If we escape the tax..and the use of Money...we cut the throat of the beast..and the lie and the liars!...we stop supporting the wars, and bent bloodshed, and mindless industrial pollution which fuels the mindlessness, they need to keep their anti Christ alive!...keep you inside watching tv...while the pollute your planet for profits and Gains in ill health (which also prospers them) and death...which removes your right to life and the possesion of what God Gave you!

So God says thou shall have no other gods before me...is exactly what the pharicees brought to him..and showed him, but he did not look upon it...And so the truth is being acted out by God, through Jesus..in the flesh!

Have we learnt the lesson?

And if we are to tend and keep the Garden well, we need to understand what God said about the givens//Genesis 9:3

Prohibition of plants is anti God, anti Christ, and anti EDEN....is that what you want?...what does God say?...do his will, and follow his word...for it is righteousness!

Now the world is being polluted for false Profits and Bent Gains....and they have everyone sipping the dead blood of the life taken, and burning it to pollute the planet...so as to defile the whole thing to death.

What sin is this?

"Woe to them Who Harm the EARTH"....are we learning Yet?

[eanassir]

Originally Posted by Mr5150

God is knowable to a degree.

God is All-Knowing about everything

God is All-Knowing; nothing may be hidden from Him: whether in the past, the present or the future.

This is in the Quran 5: 97
ذَلِكَ لِتَعْلَمُواْ أَنَّ اللّهَ يَعْلَمُ مَا فِي السَّمَاوَاتِ وَمَا فِي الأَرْضِ وَأَنَّ اللّهَ بِكُلِّ شَيْءٍ عَلِيمٌ

The explanation:
(So that you may know:

that God knows all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth,

and that God is All-Knowing about everything.)


Quran Interpretation

[eanassir]

Nothing is hidden from God neither in the heavens nor in the earth

This is in the Quran 3: 5-6
إِنَّ اللّهَ لاَ يَخْفَىَ عَلَيْهِ شَيْءٌ فِي الأَرْضِ وَلاَ فِي السَّمَاء . هُوَ الَّذِي يُصَوِّرُكُمْ فِي الأَرْحَامِ كَيْفَ يَشَاء لاَ إِلَهَ إِلاَّ هُوَ الْعَزِيزُ الْحَكِيمُ

The explanation:
(From God, nothing is hidden in the earth, nor in the heaven.

He it is Who fashions you in the wombs as He likes. There is no god save Him [alone], the Almighty, the Most Wise.)

Quran Interpretation

[Sir Les]

Yes God is all knowing...which is why God is Good...

But we are not all knowing...and that is where we error!
Do we live by Truth?
Or do we learn by Error?

or Both?

Now if we error...and we learn the truth...and know some more of what we did not know...and we see error....over time...and many generations the pieces of the puzzel are uncovered,...and we see our enviroments as unclean by way of our bad management...sickness and suffering on the rise...and natural disasters becoming more and more violant and distructive...

Then I would say we should correct the errors we make...

God said "not to touch the blood of the life taken"....which is renamed fossil fuels...and here we are in a world fueled by that very thing God said not to touch!
IS it polluting the planet?...Yes!
Is it causing illness and great suffering for all life?...Yes!
Is it a problem?...YES!

So we have truth...God said "do not touch this"...Wonder why?
Oh look in the Gulf of Mexico....the undiluted poison is now spewing forth unmixed into the enviroments we need clean and presteen....
Wonder why?

Are animals dying?...because of this poison?...YES!

God says he will mix it into his cup of Wrath undiluted...Pure.

Does it make a difference who is doing it now?....If we burn it into the air, waters and soils in a diluted or pure form,,and allow it to continue because we do not listen to reason,logics, or by way of what we have found out about it?....it is still poisoning the water, air, and soils...from which we take our food from, ...and in essence we are causing our own suffering!....now Knowing what God said...or by way of proof...we have a truth...that Fossil fuels are Toxic to life!
And we can now see that God also warns us not to use this or touch it...

But they do not listen to reason!
They do not listen to logics!
They don't listen to truth!
And they continue to burn it in their cars, planes, trains, and other pleasure crafts, and tools!..and they ask that we support our troops who portect this way of life?... who are murdering others..while saying thankyou for your sacrifices!

What are they sacrificiing?...HUMAN LIFE?...I see another sin!..and another broken commandment of God!

God is truth...truth is with God!
I think it is about time we started to listen more to what God has said, and what God has asked of us to do!..and what we know is truth..as truth... To Tend and keep the garden...and do it according to his word and will...and learn to share!
the longer it goes undone...the harder it will be to restore it (the Earth) to its original state of clean and presteen!...and while doing that restoring..we come to understand the eco systems, and tame them...using the Givens!

Health comes from a clean enviroment!...but we all know there is no profit in that pharmacutically speaking that is...right?
And what would happen to all the profits and gains the goverments ask for in taxes that support such a bent and polluted estate?...should we support it, while they murder plant growers?

Do we see the lines of corruption?

[eanassir]

Originally Posted by dobeable

I;m actually a theist,I beleive that God has an innumerable amount of forms and names because you cant put a limit onto God,you cant limit Him to one space in time like we are ,He is boundless,All Powerfull,omnipotent,omnipresent,All loving,Supreme controler,Supreme freind of all living entity's yet impartial to all,Supreme mystic,master of the senses,creator,maintainor and destroyer of universes,and I could go on and on-their is no limits to this supreme person,No limit to His commpassion,tolerance ,care,mercy,understanding,nobility,and Love etc.

The most beautiful names of God:

The ayat of the Quran 59: 22-24 speak about God and His attributes:

هُوَ اللَّهُ الَّذِي لَا إِلَهَ إِلَّا هُوَ عَالِمُ الْغَيْبِ وَالشَّهَادَةِ هُوَ الرَّحْمَنُ الرَّحِيمُ . هُوَ اللَّهُ الَّذِي لَا إِلَهَ إِلَّا هُوَ الْمَلِكُ الْقُدُّوسُ السَّلَامُ الْمُؤْمِنُ الْمُهَيْمِنُ الْعَزِيزُ الْجَبَّارُ الْمُتَكَبِّرُ سُبْحَانَ اللَّهِ عَمَّا يُشْرِكُونَ . هُوَ اللَّهُ الْخَالِقُ الْبَارِئُ الْمُصَوِّرُ لَهُ الْأَسْمَاء الْحُسْنَى يُسَبِّحُ لَهُ مَا فِي السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالْأَرْضِ وَهُوَ الْعَزِيزُ الْحَكِيمُ

The explanation:
(He is God; there is no god [to be worshipped in the universe] but He.

He is the All-Knowing of all that is absent [: invisible and unknown to you], and all that is present [: visible and known to you];

He is the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful.

He is God; there is no god but He:
the Sovereign Lord,
the Sanctified [by His angels],
the All-Peaceable,
the Believer [in Himself],
the Dominant [over His creatures],
the Almighty,
the Compeller [of unbelievers to the Fire],
the Most Sublime [above His servants.]

Celebrated be God above all that they associate [with Him.]

He is God;
the Creator [of all the creation],
the Savior [of His loyal servants],
the Fashioner [of bodies inside wombs.]

His are the Names Most Beautiful.

All that is in the heavens and the earth glorify Him,

and He is the All-Mighty,
the Most Wise.)

Quran Interpretation

[Sir Les]

When we talk about Love of God...and Just Love in general...as we Do know By Jesus saying "God (The Father of all life,)Loves the Birds and they do not toil nor spin, or herd animals into barns...and Yet he Feeds them, How much more will God love his people who do his will and fulfill his word?"

And some will say what is God's word, that I may know it...Genesis 2:15..is why God made us!
Using the givens..Genesis 9:3...there is nothing more?
Oh wait it is to be done sinlessly!

The wages for Sin in death!

Now let us think about those words...Wages? does this not pertain to payment?...$atan and the engraven imaged commodity they now make way too important for life in life...in these bent systems?
And we still have death as a constant..constantly?
So where is the sin that is causing this death of constants?

The Ten Commandments plus the one added...must be done in full!
break one, you break them all!

Thou shall have no other gods and or demigods, before thy GOD!!
And it goes on to say...no engraven imaged thing worshipped more than or made more important than GOD!

So who do we work for?...or what do we work for?...If we do not do Genesis 2:15 nor do we allow all the gifts to be utilized out of Genesis 9:3 to restore EDEN and make the multiples of that....into this reality?

YAh who do we work for if we pollute the Earth...which is a Gift from God...for us to tend and keep, and tame, and have dominion over, and multuply out into the universes...

Are we not doing the complete opposite if we pollute it and war over it, and continually kill it, when we could be doing so much more to our own benefit by sharing, and caring for it all?

SIN!...and death is the wage paid for that!

Now some will say there is no God...but we all know we need truth to be..or else Chaos arises!
And because some will and still do say there is no God, and we can sin continually with no punishment for our sins...
Well then let us see the truth of that or the other end...I see wrath, woe, sickness, suffering, great pain, and other problems in the world that humans are making under the IDOLIC charms of luxuray...with wars and lies about free trade, and freedom and liberties for all?...what does all pertain to?...under the muse of an IDOL...and the constant death that comes from it.

If a plant Grower is imprisoned as, or painted as, a criminal...then what freedom are they talking about?
The freedom to sin?
Well then let it continue till they are all dead?....for that is the wages of sin.

Should God hear the actions that speak of great sins that we do continually after being shown by Jesus the very thing that creates our sins..(YOUR MAKING A DEN OF VIPERS ROBBERS AND THIEVES)...to show we want to die, because we sin with it in our possesion, continually with out change, even knowing the truth...we do not correct the errors of our ways...and freedom for all...is just another lie, when you take all LIFE into consideration!...all lies come from the liar $atan!

Now are we justified in subjecting all life to be devalued to the debased thinking of humans, making it worthless...but to them Profitable in terms of wealth and Money,.,..which is based on something living God wants kept alive so he can feed the Birds Good seeds!....That God will take away if it is being abused!

Or is Life priceless?...and thus a price cannot be put on anything!

Which one is true?
Did God give us everything?...or do we have to constantly buy it?...do we ever own it?..do we ever keep it?...and how long can we continue to pollute it?...how do we multiply it?

Yes which one is true?...or what is the Truth?...and if we have the truth, why do we not address it by doing it?

[Ryrge]

Thanks everyone for your inputs.


I like for you all theists like myself to conceive a concept of God that does Him justice, even though as created entities we can never do justice to God.


So, before anything else we can say about God in concept, we must first know ourselves, because without knowledge of ourselves we will never be able to know God.

And what is that knowledge of ourselves that we must be aware of, in order to come to the knowledge of God?


The most important knowledge we must have of ourselves is that we are intelligent beings, and that intelligence is founded on our possession of consciousness, reason, and free choice.


For being intelligent we can and have made a vehicle that has gone to the moon and back.

Atheists claim that man is not anything more intelligent than non-human organisms.

But they are inconsistent because they readily submit themselves to IQ tests if they would want to get to college or land a good job.

Now, I am into intelligence as understood in IQ tests.

That is for me at present the only scientific (perhaps atheists will deny that IQ tests are scientific, in which case again I ask why they submit themselves to IQ tests in order to have a life if they do want to have one that is different and more welcome to themselves in regard to non-human organisms) way for detecting intelligence and the amount of intelligence in us humans.

From our knowledge of intelligence in ourselves, and making use of this intelligence we infer that as we being intelligent can contrive a vehicle that has gone to the moon and returned, and since in our intelligence we discern also things in the universe or in ourselves like the nose in our face to be intelligent, then there must be someone intelligent, much more than us, Who made everything.

Now physicists tell us that the universe has a beginning, so we can intelligently (pardon the boredom if you guys here are getting sick of my use of the word intelligence, but it is very important, otherwise for not paying attention to your intelligence you can get to be unintelligent as to say that everything comes about from chance -- when the nose in your face testifies otherwise), we can say intelligently that there is a maker of everything which has a beginning.

That is my concept of God, maker of everything which has a beginning.


What do you guys think is that an intelligent concept of God, or is chance more intelligent as a concept resorted to by atheists to explain how for example their nose is intact in their face and not falling off when chance cannot be any guarantee that tomorrow our nose will still be in our face.





Ryrge