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That is not a sacred book for the Christians,that's a sacred book for the Jews and it tells their story.
My point is, no one was bothered by pointing out what the Torah says, but only what the Bible says. Seems like a double standard. Can't Jews debate w/o using their sacred book?
Stop and think about what you have just said here, you're saying that you're Christian God has ordained all Scripture, how do you know that? Is it because somebody wrote something in that sacred book that says that you're Christian God ordained it. That's just somebody else's opinion.
No. I believe it is truly God's message to us. If any of it is untrue, then it's all worthless. It must be 100% true to be of any benefit.
My point is, no one was bothered by pointing out what the Torah says, but only what the Bible says. Seems like a double standard. Can't Jews debate w/o using their sacred book?
I understand what you're trying to say here, but my point is that this thread is about Christianity,not Judaism, two different belief systems. If somebody wishes to debate Judaism without the use of their sacred book, then they can start a separate thread for that. I see no double standard here since we are only debating one particular belief system.
Yes, but I do understand the use of parables & such.
You do understand that some of the teachings in your sacred book also justify slavery, the taking of another person's life, both women and children, kidnapping, of which the laws of man prohibit, so I cannot see where you can honestly say that your sacred book is the word of your God. The Old Testament tells the story of the plight of the Jewish people, of which your Jesus was one and should be considered a separate book of its own. The New Testament, are teachings of your Jesus, of which he was a Jewish rabbi whose teachings were different than those of the established rabbis at that time. Like I said earlier, it's a good book with morals and teaches you how to be good, but it's not a sacred book and it was not written by your Christian God, it was authored by many who wrote of the events of those times and with their opinions.
No. I believe it is truly God's message to us. If any of it is untrue, then it's all worthless. It must be 100% true to be of any benefit.
The more I learn about brain science, the more I think that fundamentalists are wired differently from non-fundamentalists. I honestly don't understand this point of view. I don't believe in the supernatural aspects of Christianity, and I take very little of the Bible as literal fact, but I think much of it is valuable as a source of wisdom. My wife is a non-fundamentalist Christian who does believe in the key supernatural aspects of Christianity, but she thinks that the Bible was written by men, and although it's divinely inspired, much was twisted and distorted. Overall, she thinks it's a great book and filled with wisdom and truth, but she also believes it's filled with inaccuracies. She picks and chooses those pieces that seem to her to be consistent with a loving God. As I've mentioned elsewhere, we've both attended Lakota religious ceremonies, and she believes they're just another path to the same God, and that not religion has a monopoly on truth. Of course, many Christians would say that automatically makes her a non-Christian.
Jimmiej, would you apply the same reasoning to, say, a history book or a science book? If it contained an inaccuracy or two, would you therefore not trust any of it? I'm just curious.
Ptsum, to answer your original question, I'd say it depends on the Christian. My wife seems to view the Bible as a valuable but flawed "supporting document" to what she believes are Jesus's simple lessons about love, forgiveness, charity, and compassion. I think she's a Gnostic Christian but doesn't realize it. But I don't think that a fundamentalist Christian could debate Christianity without quoting the Bible as supporting evidence.
You do understand that some of the teachings in your sacred book also justify slavery, the taking of another person's life, both women and children, kidnapping, of which the laws of man prohibit, so I cannot see where you can honestly say that your sacred book is the word of your God. The Old Testament tells the story of the plight of the Jewish people, of which your Jesus was one and should be considered a separate book of its own. The New Testament, are teachings of your Jesus, of which he was a Jewish rabbi whose teachings were different than those of the established rabbis at that time. Like I said earlier, it's a good book with morals and teaches you how to be good, but it's not a sacred book and it was not written by your Christian God, it was authored by many who wrote of the events of those times and with their opinions.
The more I learn about brain science, the more I think that fundamentalists are wired differently from non-fundamentalists. I honestly don't understand this point of view. I don't believe in the supernatural aspects of Christianity, and I take very little of the Bible as literal fact, but I think much of it is valuable as a source of wisdom. My wife is a non-fundamentalist Christian who does believe in the key supernatural aspects of Christianity, but she thinks that the Bible was written by men, and although it's divinely inspired, much was twisted and distorted. Overall, she thinks it's a great book and filled with wisdom and truth, but she also believes it's filled with inaccuracies. She picks and chooses those pieces that seem to her to be consistent with a loving God. As I've mentioned elsewhere, we've both attended Lakota religious ceremonies, and she believes they're just another path to the same God, and that not religion has a monopoly on truth. Of course, many Christians would say that automatically makes her a non-Christian.
Matthew 5
11"Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. 12Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven."
Quote:
Originally Posted by HonuMan
Jimmiej, would you apply the same reasoning to, say, a history book or a science book? If it contained an inaccuracy or two, would you therefore not trust any of it? I'm just curious.
Of course not. It was not authored by God.
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