U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 1.5 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Jump to a detailed profile or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Business Search - 14 Million verified businesses
Search for:  near: 
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 05-12-2010, 12:55 PM
 
Location: Littleton, CO
20,897 posts, read 6,503,596 times
Reputation: 3927

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
He didn't. It's a self-inflicted wound.
If your version of god is true, then there can be no such thing as a "self inflicted wound."
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 05-12-2010, 01:10 PM
 
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
3,334 posts, read 3,310,487 times
Reputation: 1972
Quote:
Originally Posted by HistorianDude View Post
If your version of god is true, then there can be no such thing as a "self inflicted wound."
Absolutely. The whole thing makes no sense. A thing called God creates man in perfection, all the while knowing full well that man is going to "sin". Then god creates a hell to put man in along with evil creatures called demons and a devil if they don't follow his rules.

He then says, "Dang this just didn't work out, so I'll flood all the whole world and kill everything I made except for these eight folks and all the animals and start over. Now remember, he ostensibly knew all this would happen and also knew that it wouldn't work out the second time.

He then sets one group of people apart and has them kill animals and sprinkle their blood on an altar to forgive sins. Realizing for thousands of years (knowing actually) that this is not good enough, he then sends himself in human form to be killed as a final blood sacrifice for sin. If people just believe that he has done this, then all is good. If they don't, down to hell with them and says, "Well sorry, I had a way for you to get out of it, though I created you and knew all of this would happen. This is all your fault man. Now, I'm just going to have to destroy the whole thing once and for all."

The kicker is that all this time it never once made itself known in a clear an unambiguous way so that we would know that it is god. We are told to just believe what some other humans say (not to mention that other humans have other words concerning what god is that they believe in just as vehemently). Never once has this god said, "Whoa, whoa, whoa. All y'all have got this wrong...here's the story..." It could clear it all up once and for all, but no, can't have that.

Sorry, as they say back home, "That dog won't hunt."

Last edited by Fullback32; 05-12-2010 at 02:10 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-12-2010, 02:13 PM
 
433 posts, read 328,366 times
Reputation: 86
Coercion(sins, hell) is always at the center of religion, with enticement (heaven) on the side. The whole purpose of religion is to use lies to fool the faithful believers in order to exploit them monetarily, and to control them.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-12-2010, 02:37 PM
Status: "OU sucks!" (set 15 days ago)
 
Location: The Magic Kingdom
7,017 posts, read 2,820,239 times
Reputation: 868
Quote:
Originally Posted by HistorianDude View Post
If your version of god is true, then there can be no such thing as a "self inflicted wound."
Imagine I have a classroom full of students. I give them an assignment & ask them to stay quiet while working. Instead they talk. I tell them because they didn't follow directions, they will all receive a failing grade. Some students say they are sorry & ask for a second chance. Others smart-off & say they don't care. I give the contrite students a second chance & fail the others.

Any problems with that?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-12-2010, 02:39 PM
 
Location: Texas
1,296 posts, read 1,200,926 times
Reputation: 672
If God made an imperfect creation, man, then he isn't perfect. If God made man knowing he was gonna sin, it would imply he knowingly made a faulty creation. If he didn't know he was making a flawed creation, then he isn't all-knowing.

I never have like this saved by grace idea in Christianity. To me it just sounds like a good excuse to sit around on your butt and be a do-nothinger. All you have to do is believe and that's it.

Of course, that's not what some of the Gospels say, but I guess we can ignore those parts
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-12-2010, 02:56 PM
 
Location: Littleton, CO
20,897 posts, read 6,503,596 times
Reputation: 3927
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
Imagine I have a classroom full of students. I give them an assignment & ask them to stay quiet while working. Instead they talk. I tell them because they didn't follow directions, they will all receive a failing grade. Some students say they are sorry & ask for a second chance. Others smart-off & say they don't care. I give the contrite students a second chance & fail the others.

Any problems with that?
Not at all.

Of course, I'm pretty sure that you are not god. So what you do is rather patently irrelevant to the discussion.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-12-2010, 03:33 PM
Status: "OU sucks!" (set 15 days ago)
 
Location: The Magic Kingdom
7,017 posts, read 2,820,239 times
Reputation: 868
Quote:
Originally Posted by achickenchaser View Post
If God made an imperfect creation, man, then he isn't perfect. If God made man knowing he was gonna sin, it would imply he knowingly made a faulty creation. If he didn't know he was making a flawed creation, then he isn't all-knowing.

I never have like this saved by grace idea in Christianity. To me it just sounds like a good excuse to sit around on your butt and be a do-nothinger. All you have to do is believe and that's it.

Of course, that's not what some of the Gospels say, but I guess we can ignore those parts
Matthew 21:32

Jesus said to them, "I tell you the truth, the tax collectors and the prostitutes are entering the kingdom of God ahead of you. 32For John came to you to show you the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him, but the tax collectors and the prostitutes did. And even after you saw this, you did not repent and believe him.

Mark 1:15

15"The time has come," he said. "The kingdom of God is near. Repent and believe the good news!"

John 6:29

29Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent."
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-12-2010, 03:35 PM
Status: "OU sucks!" (set 15 days ago)
 
Location: The Magic Kingdom
7,017 posts, read 2,820,239 times
Reputation: 868
Quote:
Originally Posted by HistorianDude View Post
Not at all.

Of course, I'm pretty sure that you are not god. So what you do is rather patently irrelevant to the discussion.
Just trying to give you an easy-to-understand idea of how the Gospel works.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-12-2010, 03:38 PM
 
Location: The #1 sunshine state, Arizona.
11,213 posts, read 9,593,191 times
Reputation: 60970
I just can't imagine basing all my beliefs, political views, hopes and dreams, around only one book. It seems rather short sighted.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-12-2010, 03:43 PM
 
433 posts, read 328,366 times
Reputation: 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej;
Imagine I have a classroom full of students. I give them an assignment & ask them to stay quiet while working. Instead they talk. I tell them because they didn't follow directions, they will all receive a failing grade. Some students say they are sorry & ask for a second chance. Others smart-off & say they don't care. I give the contrite students a second chance & fail the others.

Any problems with that?
Huge problem -- religion is not a knowledge body, there is no knowledge from a religion. Because religion does not research and study anything.

However, religion does "teachings". That is a big problem, since that reveals the motives of religion: using lies to control and exploit the faithful followers.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $84,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:43 PM.

2005-2014, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25 - Top