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Old 05-12-2010, 05:35 PM
Status: "OU sucks!" (set 13 days ago)
 
Location: The Magic Kingdom
6,984 posts, read 2,816,543 times
Reputation: 867

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic235 View Post
Huge problem -- religion is not a knowledge body, there is no knowledge from a religion. Because religion does not research and study anything.

However, religion does "teachings". That is a big problem, since that reveals the motives of religion: using lies to control and exploit the faithful followers.
Knowledge of God.
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Old 05-13-2010, 12:34 AM
 
Location: Valencia, Spain
7,884 posts, read 4,695,782 times
Reputation: 1525
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
Imagine I have a classroom full of students. I give them an assignment & ask them to stay quiet while working. Instead they talk. I tell them because they didn't follow directions, they will all receive a failing grade. Some students say they are sorry & ask for a second chance. Others smart-off & say they don't care. I give the contrite students a second chance & fail the others.

Any problems with that?
Yeah lots. You would not be marking them on their academic abilities but rather on whether or not they obey you. Which is just what your god does isn't it? 'Do as I say or you will suffer'. The actions of a dictator.

Let's turn the analogy around. What if half your students were quite and obedient yet showed that they had a very poor knowledge of the subject you were teaching. The other half are always chatting amongst themselves but their exam paper showed that they were very knowledgeable on the subject. Would you still fail the talkers but pass the dunces simply because the dunces obeyed your commands?

Personally, I would rather mark them on their knowledge of the subject, not on whether or not they obeyed my dictates.

Last edited by Rafius; 05-13-2010 at 01:06 AM..
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Old 05-13-2010, 01:58 AM
 
Location: 30-40N 90-100W
13,856 posts, read 13,846,327 times
Reputation: 6461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic235 View Post
Since no one was ever "saved", why keep faith on it?
I don't use terminology like "saved" but there are certainly people who had better or more interesting lives after undergoing a religious experience. Joseph Pearce abandoned white supremacy after becoming a Catholic. Although socially aware before her conversion most of the work for the poor Dorothy Day did was after she became Catholic. Several musicians or actors seem to have genuinely gotten over a drug addiction through religion.
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Old 05-13-2010, 02:22 AM
 
Location: 30-40N 90-100W
13,856 posts, read 13,846,327 times
Reputation: 6461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic235 View Post
Huge problem -- religion is not a knowledge body, there is no knowledge from a religion. Because religion does not research and study anything.
Perhaps you came from a highly anti-intellectual religion, but I don't see why that must be everyone's cross to bear. (And I grow weary of people defining religion as "the most anti-intellectual forms of Protestantism society ever created.")

Although emotion and compassion for others is key, religion can certainly involve study or contain study. Look up G. E. M. Anscombe, Karl Barth, Pavel Florensky, Peter Geach, Soren Kierkegaard, Jacques Maritain, Thomas Merton, Alvin Plantinga, Alexander Solzhenitsyn, Richard Swinburne, John Howard Yoder, and probably some others.
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Old 05-13-2010, 01:21 PM
 
Location: Littleton, CO
20,897 posts, read 6,499,262 times
Reputation: 3926
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
Just trying to give you an easy-to-understand idea of how the Gospel works.
I know full well how the "gospel works."

But since the gospel is directly contradicted by the asserted character of God, it is no more relevant than had you tried to explain to me how an iPod works.

The existence of an omniscient being renders free will an impossibility. The two cannot coexist.
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Old 05-13-2010, 01:26 PM
 
Location: Valencia, Spain
7,884 posts, read 4,695,782 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HistorianDude View Post
The existence of an omniscient being renders free will an impossibility. The two cannot coexist.
Agree 100%.
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Old 05-13-2010, 02:07 PM
Status: "OU sucks!" (set 13 days ago)
 
Location: The Magic Kingdom
6,984 posts, read 2,816,543 times
Reputation: 867
Quote:
Originally Posted by HistorianDude View Post
I know full well how the "gospel works."

But since the gospel is directly contradicted by the asserted character of God, it is no more relevant than had you tried to explain to me how an iPod works.

The existence of an omniscient being renders free will an impossibility. The two cannot coexist.
God can know what I will choose, but still let me make the choice. I saw that many times with my own children.
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Old 05-13-2010, 02:12 PM
 
Location: Valencia, Spain
7,884 posts, read 4,695,782 times
Reputation: 1525
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
God can know what I will choose, but still let me make the choice. I saw that many times with my own children.
"You saw me before I was born and scheduled each day of my life before I began to breathe. Every day was recorded in your book!" Psalm 139:16


So if your god has "scheduled every day of your life", would you please explain how you can make any free will decision that will change what your god has planned for you? How do you make a free will decision that might change what is "recorded in his book"???
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Old 05-13-2010, 02:17 PM
Status: "OU sucks!" (set 13 days ago)
 
Location: The Magic Kingdom
6,984 posts, read 2,816,543 times
Reputation: 867
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafius View Post
"You saw me before I was born and scheduled each day of my life before I began to breathe. Every day was recorded in your book!" Psalm 139:16


So if your god has "scheduled every day of your life", would you please explain how you can make any free will decision that will change what your god has planned for you? How do you make a free will decision that might change what is "recorded in his book"???
The same way I decide what to eat for lunch.
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Old 05-13-2010, 03:43 PM
 
Location: Valencia, Spain
7,884 posts, read 4,695,782 times
Reputation: 1525
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
The same way I decide what to eat for lunch.
...but you couldn't eat anything other than what your god had planned for you to eat today. If he planned for you to eat chicken, could you make a free will decision to eat beef instead...and thus foil what your god had planned for you to eat?
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