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Unread 05-19-2010, 11:59 AM
 
Location: Walt Disney World
5,878 posts, read 2,112,623 times
Reputation: 774
Quote:
Originally Posted by evofreaks View Post
i have to add too. we catholics don't expect paradise as a privilege. WE HAVE TO WORK HARD IN THIS LIFE TO ATTAIN IT. contrary to some who thinks believing in Christ is the ticket to paradise even though u were a raving rapist in your lifetime.
Total misrepresentation! A belief that doesn't result in a change of heart won't get you anywhere near Heaven. On the flipside, works w/o belief are worthless to God. Read James 2. Belief results in works, not the other way around.

Last edited by jimmiej; 05-19-2010 at 12:56 PM..
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Unread 05-19-2010, 01:36 PM
 
1,838 posts, read 1,033,322 times
Reputation: 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
Total misrepresentation! A belief that doesn't result in a change of heart won't get you anywhere near Heaven. On the flipside, works w/o belief are worthless to God. Read James 2. Belief results in works, not the other way around.
beleiving in eternal hell wont get you anywhere either,,,,sorry but you's got that one wrong!
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Unread 05-19-2010, 01:39 PM
 
Location: Walt Disney World
5,878 posts, read 2,112,623 times
Reputation: 774
Quote:
Originally Posted by dobeable View Post
beleiving in eternal hell wont get you anywhere either,,,,sorry but you's got that one wrong!
Who said anything about Hell?
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Unread 05-19-2010, 02:15 PM
 
Location: 30-40N 90-100W
13,859 posts, read 11,787,877 times
Reputation: 6412
In fairness there are atheists who've chimed in and basically said the premise is flawed. That although they feel the sincerity of belief doesn't make it true it is still sincere nonetheless.

Now I have on occasion wondered why Universalists, people who think everyone goes to Heaven, don't just commit suicide. However answering this question I guess gave me an answer on that. There's the connections to family and the need to do things on Earth. Plus I think some Universalists believe you don't instantaneously go to Heaven, but instead go to something like Purgatory first. Maybe improving yourself here cuts your time on that.
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Unread 05-19-2010, 02:29 PM
 
1,838 posts, read 1,033,322 times
Reputation: 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
Who said anything about Hell?
you beleive in eternal hell dont you,and you said that we are judged on what we beleive?????

what can this beleife actually do for a person?????
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Unread 05-19-2010, 02:31 PM
 
Location: Walt Disney World
5,878 posts, read 2,112,623 times
Reputation: 774
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas R. View Post
In fairness there are atheists who've chimed in and basically said the premise is flawed. That although they feel the sincerity of belief doesn't make it true it is still sincere nonetheless.

Now I have on occasion wondered why Universalists, people who think everyone goes to Heaven, don't just commit suicide. However answering this question I guess gave me an answer on that. There's the connections to family and the need to do things on Earth. Plus I think some Universalists believe you don't instantaneously go to Heaven, but instead go to something like Purgatory first. Maybe improving yourself here cuts your time on that.
That's basically what the Apostle Paul said (see bolded).
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Unread 05-19-2010, 02:33 PM
 
Location: Sinking in the Great Salt Lake
10,979 posts, read 8,102,667 times
Reputation: 9603
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic235 View Post
Except a few terrorists suicide attackers, I doubt anyone is a real believer. One test shows everyone is a fake is: when asked if anyone is willing to end his own life for the faith-based "afterlife" in eternity, all will crack. They all turn into atheists -- "afterlife" is death.
Translation: "Im gonna tell you what you do/don't believe".
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Unread 05-19-2010, 02:36 PM
 
Location: Walt Disney World
5,878 posts, read 2,112,623 times
Reputation: 774
Quote:
Originally Posted by dobeable View Post
you beleive in eternal hell dont you
What does that have to do with this thread?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dobeable View Post
,and you said that we are judged on what we beleive?????

what can this beleife actually do for a person?????
It makes you justified, righteous before God. It makes you a "new creation", i.e. a new person.
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Unread 05-19-2010, 03:31 PM
 
Location: NZ Wellington
2,782 posts, read 2,169,555 times
Reputation: 581
I'm sure they don't believe it deep down.. I wouldn't have cried at my grandfathers funeral if I thought he had gone to heaven.. I knew he was gone..
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Unread 05-19-2010, 04:24 PM
 
Location: 30-40N 90-100W
13,859 posts, read 11,787,877 times
Reputation: 6412
I think I may have cried when my sister went to Japan. I wasn't sure when I would see her again. Parting is sad and death is a parting.

When I went into respiratory failure in 1997 I assumed I was going to die. When I awoke I believed I was in Purgatory. This seems to indicate that "deep down" I really did believe it, maybe more than I thought even, because at that moment I believed I was there. (I didn't believe everyone who dies goes straight to Heaven, that's more like a Bugs Bunny cartoon than religion to me)
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