when you say don't believe in a G-d or Gods are you saying you don't believe in the possibility of other dimensions?

[Vic235]

I have said this many times in the past, religion is not a kowledge body - it does
not have a real answer to anything. Religion's job is to control it's followers.

Dimensions, evolution, string theory ... Whatever ... none of them is a religious matter. They are up to sciences (or whatever with sound methods) to discover them. "my God did it" is the worst answer.

[NightBazaar]

Originally Posted by gabfest

thanks everyone for the inputs and everyone has been pretty nice about it. thanks

here's a little bit of a response to NightBazaar and hopefully and interesting read to others as well;
A Two-Time Universe? Physicist Explores How Second Dimension of Time Could Unify Physics Laws

Thanks for the link Gab. It was interesting. I asked the questions I did because some people think of dimensions as an abode inhabited by unexplained beings. As mentioned in the article you posted, Itzhok Bars said what he first published for peer review wasn't complete. As also stated, the way Bars is approaching the concept of adding an extra dimension of time, he's working at it using symmetric approach. But (also mentioned) an extra dimension of space needs to be added as well, giving a total of 13 dimensions instead of the generally accepted 11 dimensions. In relation to current views of string theory and brane theories, he might have a difficult time convincing other physicists. Once he manages to tie his theory all together, then it will be better determined if his equations are valid or not. I have to admit that the example he used to illustrate his concept is like a cross between a holograph universe and The Matrix.

With regard to your original question about whether or not people believe in the possibility of other diimensions, it helps to first define what dimensions are. Could there be a 2nd dimension of time? Maybe, but would it follow the 1st? Or would they be in reverse order? And if there's also an extra dimension of space, would it become the 4th dimension, making the first dimension of time the 5th dimension with the extra becoming the 6th? Could a 2nd dimension of time be a separate dimension, or a branch of the primary dimension of time? And what are all those other dimensions anyway? What Bars' seems to be getting at is that the extra dimensions form a part of a much deeper foundation of the universe. I can sort of comprehend the idea of an extra spatial dimension to explain a separation of branes, but I'm not sure about an extra dimension of time. How does an extra time dimension improve string theory? It all starts getting a bit complex.

Okay, if people can believe in the possibility of other dimensions (which are invisible), why not believe in the possibility of "G-d or Gods" (also invisible). Is that what you were getting at?

[gabfest]

Originally Posted by NightBazaar

Thanks for the link Gab. It was interesting. I asked the questions I did because some people think of dimensions as an abode inhabited by unexplained beings. As mentioned in the article you posted, Itzhok Bars said what he first published for peer review wasn't complete. As also stated, the way Bars is approaching the concept of adding an extra dimension of time, he's working at it using symmetric approach. But (also mentioned) an extra dimension of space needs to be added as well, giving a total of 13 dimensions instead of the generally accepted 11 dimensions. In relation to current views of string theory and brane theories, he might have a difficult time convincing other physicists. Once he manages to tie his theory all together, then it will be better determined if his equations are valid or not. I have to admit that the example he used to illustrate his concept is like a cross between a holograph universe and The Matrix.

With regard to your original question about whether or not people believe in the possibility of other diimensions, it helps to first define what dimensions are. Could there be a 2nd dimension of time? Maybe, but would it follow the 1st? Or would they be in reverse order? And if there's also an extra dimension of space, would it become the 4th dimension, making the first dimension of time the 5th dimension with the extra becoming the 6th? Could a 2nd dimension of time be a separate dimension, or a branch of the primary dimension of time? And what are all those other dimensions anyway? What Bars' seems to be getting at is that the extra dimensions form a part of a much deeper foundation of the universe. I can sort of comprehend the idea of an extra spatial dimension to explain a separation of branes, but I'm not sure about an extra dimension of time. How does an extra time dimension improve string theory? It all starts getting a bit complex.

Okay, if people can believe in the possibility of other dimensions (which are invisible), why not believe in the possibility of "G-d or Gods" (also invisible). Is that what you were getting at?

i had a weird experience when i was child about age 10. my mother was a "thelma and louise" type.she unfortunately for us was a very heavy burden due to her extreme alcoholism and non-comformitivity. i worried about her incessantly.
she was verbally and physically abusive to boot.
one night, after she left out, i had a very unique dream.
in this dream, i found myself conscious that i was in an observative position. i was up in the corner of a room hovering steadily ( i don't think i had a body) over a juke box some how i knew i was at my mother's friends home, mrs. tree.
i had never been inside her house before.
mrs.tree's home doubled as a residence and a gambling parlor.
i remember being present and seeing some woman over-powering my mother. she was thrashing my mother about the room violently. there was nothing i could do to help her. i couldn't even make a sound.
the next day i didn't see any visible signs of a fight on her but curiously i had to know at risk of a butt whipping was the dream real. i nervously asked her if she had been envolved in fight the night before at mrs. tree's home with some lady? she said "yes" and "kid you worry about your mom too much".
i was there.
i guess what i'am getting at... is that i believe consciousness lives on even after death. i really don't want to tie this God worship because i think dimensional changes are a natural progressions or degressions of one's own consciousness.
r.e.m. sleep is thought to be, by some, a passage for one's consciousness to explore other planes.
thanks.

[NightBazaar]

Originally Posted by gabfest

i guess what i'am getting at... is that i believe consciousness lives on even after death. i really don't want to tie this God worship because i think dimensional changes are a natural progressions or degressions of one's own consciousness.
r.e.m. sleep is thought to be, by some, a passage for one's consciousness to explore other planes.
thanks.

You're now saying "i don't want to tie this God worship..."? Sorry, too late now. You already did in the title of the thread.

So then by dimensions, you mean other planes of existence after all. And visiting those places or experiences can be accomplished by means of something like astral projection, out-of-body experiences, or premonition during sleep. I'd have to guess your views of "other dimensions" are not quite the same as mine. So what was the point of posting the link about Itzhok Bars study on an extra dimension of time ? It sounded like you were asking something physics related in a philosophical way. It's probably a little easier to be a bit more direct.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not underestimating that dreams are a part of sleep. Everyone has dreams, even if we don't always remember them. It seems to be a part of our human condition during rest. They can even be meaningful in various ways. And sometimes they can be very vivid and seem as if it's actually happening, that is until we wake up.

As for the dream you described, I can see how it would be easy to think you somehow crossed a dimensional threshold especially after asking your mother. But there are some other things you mentioned as well. You said she was an extreme alcoholic and abusive both verbally and physically. Was your dream real or not? You said you saw no signs of a fight, which kind of suggests she might have gotten banged up in your dream. Not so, after looking at her when you were awake. Doesn't it seem likely that if she had such a harsh personality and problems with alcohol that she was bound to get in a fight sooner or later? Isn't it possible that your dream and that she did get into a fight might have simply been a coincidence compiled with the likelihood of such a thing happening? After all, you said you worried about her incessantly.

Just saying...

[gabfest]

Originally Posted by NightBazaar

You're now saying "i don't want to tie this God worship..."? Sorry, too late now. You already did in the title of the thread.

So then by dimensions, you mean other planes of existence after all. And visiting those places or experiences can be accomplished by means of something like astral projection, out-of-body experiences, or premonition during sleep. I'd have to guess your views of "other dimensions" are not quite the same as mine. So what was the point of posting the link about Itzhok Bars study on an extra dimension of time ? It sounded like you were asking something physics related in a philosophical way. It's probably a little easier to be a bit more direct.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not underestimating that dreams are a part of sleep. Everyone has dreams, even if we don't always remember them. It seems to be a part of our human condition during rest. They can even be meaningful in various ways. And sometimes they can be very vivid and seem as if it's actually happening, that is until we wake up.

As for the dream you described, I can see how it would be easy to think you somehow crossed a dimensional threshold especially after asking your mother. But there are some other things you mentioned as well. You said she was an extreme alcoholic and abusive both verbally and physically. Was your dream real or not? You said you saw no signs of a fight, which kind of suggests she might have gotten banged up in your dream. Not so, after looking at her when you were awake. Doesn't it seem likely that if she had such a harsh personality and problems with alcohol that she was bound to get in a fight sooner or later? Isn't it possible that your dream and that she did get into a fight might have simply been a coincidence compiled with the likelihood of such a thing happening? After all, you said you worried about her incessantly.

Just saying...

thanks for your reply.
the original question of thread has been satisfactorily answered for me.

[Melvin.George]

Originally Posted by gabfest

religions seem to all typically refer to other dimensions.
.

Yeah...here's a few of them:

"The Son of Man shall send out His angels, and they shall gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who do iniquity, and shall cast them into a furnace of fire. There shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth."
(Mat 13:41-42)

"So it shall be at the end of the world. The angels shall come out and separate the wicked from among the just, and shall cast them into the furnace of fire. There shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth."
Mat 13:49-50

"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Away from me, you that are under God's curse! Away to the eternal fire which has been prepared for the Devil and his angels!"
"These, then, will be sent off to eternal punishment, but the righteous will go to eternal life."
(Mat 25:41 & 46)

"And if your foot offends you, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life lame than to have two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched where
their worm (conscience) dies not, and the fire is not quenched."
(Mark 9:45-46)

"And in hell he lifted up his eyes, being in torments, and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me and send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am tormented in this flame."
(Luke 16:23-24)

"He who believes on Him is not condemned, but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only-begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than the Light, because their deeds were evil."
(John 3:18-19)

" - in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God and who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ, who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, ...."
(2Th 1:8-9)

"And a third angel followed them, saying with a great voice, If anyone worships the beast and its image, and receives a mark in his forehead or in his hand, he also will drink of the wine of the anger of God, having been mixed undiluted in the cup of His wrath. And he will be tormented by fire and brimstone before the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever. And they have no rest day or night, those who worship the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name."
(Rev 14:9-11)

"And if anyone was not found having been written in the Book of Life, he was cast into the Lake of Fire."
(Rev 20:15)

"But the fearful, and the unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, will have their part in the Lake burning with fire and brimstone, which is the second death."
(Rev 21:8)

[cleatis]

Originally Posted by gabfest

religions seem to all typically refer to other dimensions.

just wondered how many here believe that various dimension of time are a real possibility.

imo, religions have fastened themselves to various dimensions of time and not vice-versa.

I would say that there are other dimensions - but that doesn't mean that there is a guy in the clouds with an abacus taking tally of every time you do something dirty in the shower. With these other dimensions, there lies possibility that could be much beyond what we understand. And while some could conclude from this that this is an extra possibility for god, it's also a mountain of extra possibility that could run quite counter to our notion of god.