God cannot be both all-powerful and all-loving (Christians, Adam and Eve, Christ)

[LogicIsYourFriend]

Originally Posted by Skyliner

I believe this discrepancy is simply a matter of our perception of who God is and what our purpose is in relation to who he is. If we look at God's love in a selfish way, then it is easy to understand why we are repulsed by God's anger. On the other hand, if the Christian Bible is correct and we were created primarily to worship him as our creator and preeminent authority and to willingly obey his commands, then his wrath against all forms of disobedience is understandable.

It's "understandable" if you view your god as a maniacal totalitarian dictator.

[Tricky D]

Originally Posted by LogicIsYourFriend

You don't rape because you don't have the urge to. Why did your god create that urge in some people?

Lol Is your conclusion that I have no sex drive?
Or are you saying that I'm a civilised human being?
I just know the difference between love and lust and I also possess the empathy to imagine how rape might affect the victim.

I've also stated that I'm rather killed than be guilty of rape.
Wouldn't it also not be logical for you to conclude that I'm also suicidal?

[LogicIsYourFriend]

Originally Posted by Tricky D

Originally Posted by LogicIsYourFriend Lol Is your conclusion that I have no sex drive?
Or are you saying that I'm a civilised human being?
I just know the difference between love and lust and I also possess the empathy to imagine how rape might affect the victim.

So now everyone who has a sex drive has the urge to rape children?

I've also stated that I'm rather killed than be guilty of rape.
Wouldn't it also not be logical for you to conclude that I'm also suicidal?

Huh?

[Aeroman]

Originally Posted by LogicIsYourFriend

You don't rape because you don't have the urge to. Why did your god create that urge in some people?

I would like to know the answer to that question also.

[Tricky D]

Originally Posted by LogicIsYourFriend

So now everyone who has a sex drive has the urge to rape children?

So now it is about raping children?

Are you claiming that you've never been overwhelmed by pure lust for a woman or have never been in a situation where you could take advantage of a woman (or a man if you are gay) because she was intoxicated?
The fact that I do not rape does not mean that I never was tempted.
But since I understand what exactly is going on in my head and how my actions might affect others I can resist temptation.
I believe that everyone is making these kind of decisions in their subconscious.

[LogicIsYourFriend]

Originally Posted by Tricky D

Originally Posted by LogicIsYourFriend So now it is about raping children?

It's about all evil. Even if you've had the urge to rape an attractive woman and fought it, there are horrific things that people do in this world that you have never had the urge to do. So clearly it's possible to have free will without having the urge to commit evil acts.

Are you claiming that you've never been overwhelmed by pure lust for a woman or have never been in a situation where you could take advantage of a woman (or a man if you are gay) because she was intoxicated?
The fact that I do not rape does not mean that I never was tempted.
But since I understand what exactly is going on in my head and how my actions might affect others I can resist temptation.
I believe that everyone is making these kind of decisions in their subconscious.

You seem to be saying that the world is better off with evil in it.

I would prefer to live in a world where no one ever decided to rape, torture, murder, etc. I'd be happy if I never had the option to be evil. There are plenty of things to choose in life other than "do I rape her or say 'hi'?"

[Tricky D]

Originally Posted by LogicIsYourFriend

It's about all evil.

True.
But having free will also means that you can do evil (not that you should).

You seem to be saying that the world is better off with evil in it.

No all I'm saying is that in order to have a choice (so you have free will) you have to have 2 different options and these options just happen to be good and evil.
Claiming that the world is better of without evil is saying that the world is better of without having the option to choose (or have free will).
If we could only do good God truly would be a, how did you phrase it: ‘a maniacal totalitarian dictator.’
I guess that for you God is doomed if he does and doomed if he doesn’t give us free will.

I would prefer to live in a world where no one ever decided to rape, torture, murder, etc. I'd be happy if I never had the option to be evil.

And how do you feel about death?
Is the fact that all life ends evil?
Do you believe that an existence without death (or suffering) would be better than the one we have now?

[LogicIsYourFriend]

Originally Posted by Tricky D

Originally Posted by LogicIsYourFriend True.
But having free will also means that you can do evil (not that you should).

No all I'm saying is that in order to have a choice (so you have free will) you have to have 2 different options and these options just happen to be good and evil.
Claiming that the world is better of without evil is saying that the world is better of without having the option to choose (or free will).
If we could only do good God truly would be a, how did you phrase it: ‘a maniacal totalitarian dictator.’
I guess that for you God is doomed if he does and doomed if he doesn’t give us free will.

False dichotomy - it's not all or nothing. If God is all-powerful, he could give us free will but never give us the urge to hurt each other. That's a world I would want to live in.

And how do you feel about death?
Is the fact that all life ends evil?
Do you believe that an existence without death (or suffering) would be better than the one we have now?

How I feel about death doesn't negate all the other evils that I would rid the world of if I were all-powerful.

[Tricky D]

Originally Posted by LogicIsYourFriend

If God is all-powerful, he could give us free will but never give us the urge to hurt each other.

But what then of evolution?
And how could you eat meat (and fish) if you were unable to hurt others?

How I feel about death doesn't negate all the other evils that I would rid the world of if I were all-powerful.

I'm not talking about death negating evil; I'm talking about death being necessary because we live in a universe that is limited.
If man was created immortal we would not need our 4 senses.
Or a brain for that matter.
If man could not die information becomes useless.

[LogicIsYourFriend]

Originally Posted by Tricky D

Originally Posted by LogicIsYourFriend But what then of evolution?
And how could you eat meat (and fish) if you were unable to hurt others?

Yet another messed up aspect of our world.

I'm not talking about death negating evil; I'm talking about death being necessary because we live in a universe that is limited.
If man was created immortal we would not need our 4 senses.
Or a brain for that matter.
If man could not die information becomes useless.

No, I was saying that how I feel about death is irrelevant to the fact that there are evils in this world that make it a lesser place than it could be, given an all-powerful god.

The problem with your argument is that you are saying the world is best because there is evil. Doesn't it feel weird to be defending evil?