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And yet again, when nothing intelligent to say in rebuttal, here come the insults in some lame attempt to be right. It really is a sad desperation to create such a reaction.
the reason i said that was because you said according to the OP,i was trying to shove some fear based doctrine down peoples neck's,but if you actually had of read the OP and picked up on it properly,instead of puttin words in my mouth,then you would see it was pretty light hearted,..How happy would you be?????if you found out that life dosent start with birth nor end with death,funny enough no-one really awnsered the OP question-well would it make you and your life even more complete,eternity is a beutifull thing when lived in the right spirit!
Well, I wonder whether there is an 'I' apart from the continuance of character appearance and the accumulated memories. That's the point. I doubt that there is an 'I' apart from that, and it follows that there is no 'I' to get a new life after death. That's why I doubt the idea of reincarnation.
I know there are claims about people recalling past lives. But how is that more than someone else getting your memories? Does your kids getting your family album after you die make them 'You'?
What I'm asking you is, whether (by some mechanism) my memories being picked up by some new life would make that person 'I'? It would be easy to say, 'yes; that would be enough', but I'm not sure.
You see, sitting here, the thought that the next - life person might inherit my memories doesn't make me feel that person would therefore be me.
when you find the source of consioussness,which i beleive is the soul and not the brain,and one of the reason's for that is because their are living entity's that have no brains but that dont mean they have no consioussness,consioussness is a symptom of the soul,the soul is the enjoyer or sufferer-the being that experiences behind the senses,and is not made of matter,but spirit,a totally different unchanging energy,matter is constantly changing but the soul remains the same,it is transcendental to material energy,but our consioussness can change,our awareness and due to our contact with material energy,over millions of lifetimes we have become spiritualy asleep,we are not aware of the transcendental bliss that exist's deep in our consioussness,its there lying dormant but to awake this consioussness their are certain processes!,the mind is fickle and attached to the bodily condition,and when the mind is fixed on the the sense objects,intelligence is lost,when intelligence is lost then so is memory and we lose contact with ourn very essence,but it goes alot deeper than that(or just read Bhagavad Gita) ,their are other people who could fully explain alot better than i can,but the reincarnation concept makes alot of sense,unless their is no God and i think IMO that thATS VERY UNLIKLY
The problem starts when someone made a religion out a of something that can never be found out. Worse, religion requires you to follow certain codes that are nothing but religious leaders made up to exploit followers.
when you find the source of consioussness,which i beleive is the soul and not the brain,and one of the reason's for that is because their are living entity's that have no brains but that dont mean they have no consioussness,consioussness is a symptom of the soul,the soul is the enjoyer or sufferer-the being that experiences behind the senses,and is not made of matter,but spirit,a totally different unchanging energy,matter is constantly changing but the soul remains the same,it is transcendental to material energy,but our consioussness can change,our awareness and due to our contact with material energy,over millions of lifetimes we have become spiritualy asleep,we are not aware of the transcendental bliss that exist's deep in our consioussness,its there lying dormant but to awake this consioussness their are certain processes!,the mind is fickle and attached to the bodily condition,and when the mind is fixed on the the sense objects,intelligence is lost,when intelligence is lost then so is memory and we lose contact with ourn very essence,but it goes alot deeper than that(or just read Bhaavad Gita) ,their are other people who could fully explain alot better than i can,but the reincarnation concept makes alot of sense,unless their is no God and i think IMO that thATS VERY UNLIKLY
Good answer. For myself I see no reason to suppose that other living entities have consciousness without a brain. In fact even the very 'lower' animals have brains but arguable no consciousness.
So it's very ill advised to make sweeping assumptions about consciousness and base the supposition that there is a 'soul' on that.
In fact as you say, our consciousnes can change. Well, that sounds like our brain and modes of thinking and stored memories. A 'soul' ought not to change.
You final point, reincarnation makes sense unles there is no god or, to put it another way, if there is no god then reincarnation makes no sense.
If there is no good reason to suppose a god, then reincarnation makes no sense.
No good reason to suppose a soul other than some very doubtful speculations about consciousness.
No reason to suppose a god.
There isn't much to prop your theory up, it seems to me.
Incidentally, I though I answered the OP question on p2 "I've sometimes thought it would be nice to have my life again and avoid making some of the detours that have taken up time. But that would mean that I'd have to have all my previous life memories and live the same life again." But it must have slipped your mind.
Good answer. For myself I see no reason to suppose that other living entities have consciousness without a brain. In fact even the very 'lower' animals have brains but arguable no consciousness.
So it's very ill advised to make sweeping assumptions about consciousness and base the supposition that there is a 'soul' on that.
In fact as you say, our consciousnes can change. Well, that sounds like our brain and modes of thinking and stored memories. A 'soul' ought not to change.
You final point, reincarnation makes sense unles there is no god or, to put it another way, if there is no god then reincarnation makes no sense.
If there is no good reason to suppose a god, then reincarnation makes no sense.
No good reason to suppose a soul other than some very doubtful speculations about consciousness.
No reason to suppose a god.
There isn't much to prop your theory up, it seems to me.
Incidentally, I though I answered the OP question on p2 "I've sometimes thought it would be nice to have my life again and avoid making some of the detours that have taken up time. But that would mean that I'd have to have all my previous life memories and live the same life again." But it must have slipped your mind.
your question seems a bit silly to me,why would you be living the same life ,its still you,but a different time, place and circumstances.why do you think you have to have AL your previous life memories,ive already said that when you leave the limitations of this body ,you can see baxck a few lifetimes,but ALL,that could be billions,no,God can remember all of them as He explains in Bhagavad Gita,but you cannot,you can barely remember last week/so to say that is!!
so are you telling me that those animals lets say a starfish,has no awareness- that it is not aware of itself,awareness=consioussness,even trees have awareness,just not as much as a starfish and a starfish not as much as a whale and so on, so yes there are different levels of consioussness,depending on which body one possess,
and yes if there is no God then the reincarnation/karma thing dosent make sense,to me anyway,but if there is a God then it makes perfect sense why people suffer differently,and what body they get and what time ,place and circumstance they are born into
But the Soul will fail your image or over-accomplish It in someway. Thus there is a certain comparison of being accomplished or not in one's vocation. The second form makes the Godhead a priori to 'God'. The soul never needs the devil. Alas I got it.
your question seems a bit silly to me,why would you be living the same life ,its still you,but a different time, place and circumstances.why do you think you have to have AL your previous life memories,ive already said that when you leave the limitations of this body ,you can see baxck a few lifetimes,but ALL,that could be billions,no,God can remember all of them as He explains in Bhagavad Gita,but you cannot,you can barely remember last week/so to say that is!!
It wasn't a question but an answer, but yes, it wasn't quite what you had in mind. It was more an idea of getting another life knowing enough to avoid making the same mistakes. Going back knowing nothing and with every chance of making the same mistakes again doesn't sound so wonderful and, if the brainwave of a god, pretty incompetent.
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so are you telling me that those animals lets say a starfish,has no awareness- that it is not aware of itself,awareness=consioussness,even trees have awareness,just not as much as a starfish and a starfish not as much as a whale and so on, so yes there are different levels of consioussness,depending on which body one possess,
I agree with that. Let's say that the consciousness is not so developed as our own. But whether or not, it's brain activity. I see no reason to suppose that it continues after death. Reincarnation, Heaven, Hell, all these after death claims have rather little to support the claims.
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and yes if there is no God then the reincarnation/karma thing dosent make sense,to me anyway,but if there is a God then it makes perfect sense why people suffer differently,and what body they get and what time ,place and circumstance they are born into
I agree that it makes reincarnation a bit more workable being down to a God dishing out bodies and atributes according to inclination. It didn't work as a natural force. It just depends on whether one believes in gods or not. No goids, no reincarnation.
It wasn't a question but an answer, but yes, it wasn't quite what you had in mind. It was more an idea of getting another life knowing enough to avoid making the same mistakes. Going back knowing nothing and with every chance of making the same mistakes again doesn't sound so wonderful and, if the brainwave of a god, pretty incompetent.
actually when i think about it,its a pretty good point-but heres what i was thinkin-our problems arise from our desires mostly,unless we have some pretty bad karma on our shoulders and have to go through some learning curvs,but lets say we do keep making the same mistakes-like lets say taking drugs,becoming drug addicts,we love gettin high,and each time we destroy our lives because of it,now lets say after 10 lifetimes of getting high,and dont forget everytime we leave the body we can see those past lives,but because we are born ignorant,due to material nature,we forget,and even though we know this will skrew us up,we still have the desire,now how about after 20 lifetimes of making the same mistake that it is beatin into our consioussness and somethin tells us to be wise,basically our deepest part's of our beings,or somethin,so we avoid it,or if we need to learn something and then have learned it,then there wouldnt be a need to go through it again......always makes me wonder when i see a realy talented kid,like lets say Mozart,that can excell even His teachers at an early age,stuff like that makes me wonder,also every child even at an early age,ive got 3,and they know who they are from the start,theyn know what they like and dont like,different personality's-i know personality's change but they dont change that much,unless somethin drastic happens or they get mentally ill.
thinkin about this made me think of somethin else,it is said in the Veda's that every-living thing originates from the spiritual universe,and that in time all will return,and that the ultimate goal of life is to break free from karma and reincarnation,so after many many lifetimes of experiencing/enjoying/desiring material sense pleasure,which binds us to the body(,and is no-where near as high as spiritual pleasure),everyone will eventually loose the taste for material things and start getting back to whee the real stuff is-transcendental ecstatic eternal bliss and knowledge.and a personal relationship with the Supreme Himself.
actually when i think about it,its a pretty good point-but heres what i was thinkin-our problems arise from our desires mostly,unless we have some pretty bad karma on our shoulders and have to go through some learning curvs,but lets say we do keep making the same mistakes-like lets say taking drugs,becoming drug addicts,we love gettin high,and each time we destroy our lives because of it,now lets say after 10 lifetimes of getting high,and dont forget everytime we leave the body we can see those past lives,but because we are born ignorant,due to material nature,we forget,and even though we know this will skrew us up,we still have the desire,now how about after 20 lifetimes of making the same mistake that it is beatin into our consioussness and somethin tells us to be wise,basically our deepest part's of our beings,or somethin,so we avoid it,or if we need to learn something and then have learned it,then there wouldnt be a need to go through it again......always makes me wonder when i see a realy talented kid,like lets say Mozart,that can excell even His teachers at an early age,stuff like that makes me wonder,also every child even at an early age,ive got 3,and they know who they are from the start,theyn know what they like and dont like,different personality's-i know personality's change but they dont change that much,unless somethin drastic happens or they get mentally ill.
That's certainly something that might bear investigation; the causes of genius. The genius of Mozart seems a case in point, but, if it's a question of inherited information from earlier lives, why didn't it come to some person the son of a leatherworker or army captain. Mozart came from a musical family and that indicates that a kid, with the right education, can become a genius. It does not indicate that it comes from former lives.
You see, casting around for any Facts that can be used to prop up a preferred belief is not a good way of reasoning. You have to think and test and so often the facts don't support the theory you're putting forward.
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thinkin about this made me think of somethin else,it is said in the Veda's that every-living thing originates from the spiritual universe,and that in time all will return,and that the ultimate goal of life is to break free from karma and reincarnation,so after many many lifetimes of experiencing/enjoying/desiring material sense pleasure,which binds us to the body(,and is no-where near as high as spiritual pleasure),everyone will eventually loose the taste for material things and start getting back to whee the real stuff is-transcendental ecstatic eternal bliss and knowledge.and a personal relationship with the Supreme Himself.
That's pretty much the way that any heaven -theory works. It tends to postulate a sort of integration of our spiritual essence with the Adi buddha or CosmicKrishna or Patheistgod or Einsteins' intelligent nature or whatever. I can't say I'm consumed with excitement. It is a bit of a let down from a heaven where all our wishes are granted. Again, it isn't 'Me' in any sense that is meaninfull to me and, frankly, I'll take the reversed Pascal's wager and make the most of this life, as that one appeals to me no better than decomposing into my molecules after turning in my lunch - bucket.
That's certainly something that might bear investigation; the causes of genius. The genius of Mozart seems a case in point, but, if it's a question of inherited information from earlier lives, why didn't it come to some person the son of a leatherworker or army captain. Mozart came from a musical family and that indicates that a kid, with the right education, can become a genius. It does not indicate that it comes from former lives.
You see, casting around for any Facts that can be used to prop up a preferred belief is not a good way of reasoning. You have to think and test and so often the facts don't support the theory you're putting forward.
well the fact that he was also born into a family of musicians can also back up the claim,because we have certain choices before we come here and usually we get what we desire within the limits of what we deserve!!so he would have definitly wanted to be born into that type of family to continue what he loved doin,wonder what he's writing now????
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Originally Posted by arequipa
That's pretty much the way that any heaven -theory works. It tends to postulate a sort of integration of our spiritual essence with the Adi buddha or CosmicKrishna or Patheistgod or Einsteins' intelligent nature or whatever. I can't say I'm consumed with excitement. It is a bit of a let down from a heaven where all our wishes are granted. Again, it isn't 'Me' in any sense that is meaninfull to me and, frankly, I'll take the reversed Pascal's wager and make the most of this life, as that one appeals to me no better than decomposing into my molecules after turning in my lunch - bucket.
no ,your right this life is the most important one you have,you can only live in the present,but your actions in this life will effect the outcome of your next,its the whole "reap what you sow",karma thingy.
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