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Old 06-12-2010, 08:43 PM
 
Location: Boise
2,004 posts, read 2,764,141 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pneuma View Post
I don't beleive that is the only way cleatis, that would be mans only way and thus they justify doing such things. Calling evil good and good evil.
Well then, where'e the line drawn between the two? Not even the bible can differentiate all of it.
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Old 06-13-2010, 07:37 AM
 
Location: Canada
6,042 posts, read 3,516,239 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafius View Post
And your academic qualifications in ancient Hebrew and Greek are........????
You don't need qualifications to study out the meaning of words.

But I did give a definition from a qualified Hebrew and Greek schalor that say bara means cut down or cut off.

You just don't like it.
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Old 06-13-2010, 07:39 AM
 
Location: Canada
6,042 posts, read 3,516,239 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaniMae1 View Post
Right, you should depend on facts for what you believe. Is that what you do? And why do you speak of the blind as if they are incapable? Blind peoples other senses are so well tuned that they are perfectly capable of leading another blind person.
Ok you drive in a car with them, I won't
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Old 06-13-2010, 07:42 AM
 
Location: Canada
6,042 posts, read 3,516,239 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cleatis View Post
Well then, where'e the line drawn between the two? Not even the bible can differentiate all of it.
Partly because man has tampered so much with the scriptures, adding things that were never in them to begin with and changing other scriptures in order to make them fit their Idea of God.

Not everything in the bible is scripture.
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Old 06-13-2010, 10:12 AM
 
Location: Valencia, Spain
12,725 posts, read 8,577,088 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pneuma View Post
You don't need qualifications to study out the meaning of words.
Really!! I don't think that you will find many official translators around today that do not hold qualifications. However, your claim is that all the Hebrew scholars that have translated our Bibles have got it wrong in this particular case and that you, totally unqualified in the study of ancient Hebrew and Greek languages, have it right. You have decided this for no other reason than you don't want your god to be associated with the creation of evil.

I'd wager that you would go through your Bible and see things written about your god 'creating' love, 'creating' goodness, 'creating' happiness or 'creating' other nice fluffy things and not once would you question that the word create means anything other than it has always been accepted to mean. But because the creation of evil by your god does not fit well on your mind, you want to change the meaning of the word in this particular case whilst leaving it as it stands in other parts of the Bible.

Quote:
But I did give a definition from a qualified Hebrew and Greek schalor that say bara means cut down or cut off.
No! What you gave was that it CAN mean that... not that it DOES, always, mean that or that it DOES mean that in this case. You have chosen that one obscure meaning for the word here because it fits your agenda ie...to disassociate your deity with the introduction of 'evil'.

So then, let me ask you. If your god did NOT create evil as you claim....then who did? We are told that your deity created everything.....EVERYTHING! You say he didn't create evil so please explain who did and why the Bible is wrong when it claims that your god DID create everything?
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Old 06-13-2010, 03:10 PM
 
Location: Canada
6,042 posts, read 3,516,239 times
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Quote:
Really!! I don't think that you will find many official translators around today that do not hold qualifications. However, your claim is that all the Hebrew scholars that have translated our Bibles have got it wrong in this particular case and that you, totally unqualified in the study of ancient Hebrew and Greek languages, have it right. You have decided this for no other reason than you don't want your god to be associated with the creation of evil.


You really need to start searching things out for yourself, and stop listening to other people.

One cannot really grow until one does things for themselves, if one must rely on others then one is still on the teat.

And yes, I am correct and those who translated it other ways are incorrect.

I gave you the reason why using scripture, which you just ignored.


Quote:
I'd wager that you would go through your Bible and see things written about your god 'creating' love, 'creating' goodness, 'creating' happiness or 'creating' other nice fluffy things and not once would you question that the word create means anything other than it has always been accepted to mean. But because the creation of evil by your god does not fit well on your mind, you want to change the meaning of the word in this particular case whilst leaving it as it stands in other parts of the Bible.


Create ALWAY stems from the root cut down or cut off.

I explained this before but will do so again.

God creates by His word

His word is a two edged sword used to divide one substance from another.

David prayed create in me a clean heart

That creation is referred to as circumcision

Circumcision is the CUTTING OFF of the foreskin.


Quote:
No! What you gave was that it CAN mean that... not that it DOES, always, mean that or that it DOES mean that in this case. You have chosen that one obscure meaning for the word here because it fits your agenda ie...to disassociate your deity with the introduction of 'evil'.


Again I gave you scripture that says

Love worketh no evil nor thinketh no evil

God is love

I do not change the incorruptible God into the image of corruptible man
Israel of old and the translators did this.

God said man was to be made in His image and likeness

Man believes this has already happened

Because man believes this and they know that within them they have both an evil and good nature they turned around and attributed those same traits to God.

And you like most swallowed this hook line and sinker.


Quote:
So then, let me ask you. If your god did NOT create evil as you claim....then who did? We are told that your deity created everything.....EVERYTHING! You say he didn't create evil so please explain who did and why the Bible is wrong when it claims that your god DID create everything?


God said everything He created was GOOD, so what you have been told is wrong.

God sowed GOOD seed/wheat in the earth and the devil came and sowed tares among the wheat.
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Old 06-13-2010, 03:26 PM
 
Location: Valencia, Spain
12,725 posts, read 8,577,088 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pneuma View Post
And yes, I am correct and those who translated it other ways are incorrect.
Oh that's OK then. Just as long as you, having no academic qualifications in ancient Hebrew, know more it than those that do.

Have a nice day.
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Old 06-14-2010, 01:07 AM
 
Location: Canada
6,042 posts, read 3,516,239 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafius View Post
Oh that's OK then. Just as long as you, having no academic qualifications in ancient Hebrew, know more it than those that do.

Have a nice day.

Hmmmm I gave you a definition from a qualified scholor

And I explained why I was right and the translator were wrong

Even logic shows me to be correct

OT guy write God creates good and evil

Jesus say a good tree CANNOT bring forth evil fruit

Logic say both CANNOT be correct.

Either the OT guy knew more about God or Jesus did

Either the OT guy is correct and Jesus is wrong or Jesus is correct and the OT guy is wrong

Jesus came to reveil the Father becuase those of olden times only knew of Him but did not know Him

Jesus is correct the OT Guy is incorrect

So as Jesus is correct the translator of that verse must then be wrong.

Scripture backs me up

Logic backs me up

So I must be right.
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Old 06-14-2010, 09:48 AM
 
34,695 posts, read 22,517,818 times
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On what basis is suffering deemed necessary? It exists . . . but who says it is necessary?
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Old 06-15-2010, 05:41 AM
 
6,392 posts, read 3,405,443 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafius View Post
Well let's see what the 'Word of God' says about this:

"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things."
Isa 45:7

”Is it not from the mouth of the Most High that good and evil come?”
Lam. 3:38.

”...that I may repent of the evil, which I purpose to do unto them because of the evil of their doings”
Jer. 26:3.

”...all the evil which I purpose to do unto them; that they may return every man from his evil way; that I may forgive their iniquity and their sin” Jer. 36:3.

”For thus saith the Lord; as I have brought all this great evil upon this people, so will I bring upon them all the good that I have promised them” Jer. 32:42.

”...shall there be evil in a city, and the Lord hath not done it?”
Amos 3:6.

See also: Jer. 11:11, 14:16, 18:11, 19:3, 19:15, 23:12, 26:13, 26:19, 35:17, 36:31, 40:2, 42:10, 42:17, 44:2, 45:5, 49:37, 51:64, Ezek. 6:10, Micah 2:3, 1 Kings 21:29, 2 Chron. 34:24, and 2 Chron. 34:28
Yup...God is mean, cruel, and evil.----But only if you are suggesting that God can't be anything but "Biblegod". Which is typically indicative of an all consuming, obsessive, compulsive bias against that particular philosophy. Those characteristics were created and assigned to God by men seeking to extort money and power, and is a twisted and polluted description of the true Source God. But then...you knew that.
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