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Old 06-04-2010, 09:50 AM
 
Location: missouri
1,149 posts, read 713,200 times
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Why wouldn't an all loving god not allow suffering; how does one rationally connect love with no pain. Could not one just as well state that if there were no pain god would not be love? Suffering is a state that exists with change, god or no god; the god concept does not have change in it (that is why the crucifixion is such a strange thing), but what is temporal does change (one does not need god here, philosophically, for suffering). The temporal, or what is temporal, changes by necessity, that is why it is temporal; therefore, suffering is necessary the whole time the temporal is becoming (it does not exist ideally because it is constantly in a state of flux). If a loving god wanted to end the suffering, he would have to end the temporal; your death will accomplish that for you. If the cosmos (in a godless mind), evolution, or whatever gets you, wanted (without reflection, of course) or naturally (what ever one's concept of nature is; how all this mess maintains itself), or whatever gets you, "wanted" to end suffering, the temporal would still have to be removed; and once again, your impending death will end it. So, as long as you are temporal, you change, and the change is a suffering (to various degrees, I suppose).
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Old 06-04-2010, 09:54 AM
 
Location: Little Elm, TX
6,947 posts, read 7,355,806 times
Reputation: 4116
Quote:
Originally Posted by I LOVE NORTH CAROLINA View Post
View whatever comes your way as something God is going to use for His greater purpose and your good Romans 8:28.

Keep your focus on the Lord no matter what Isaiah 41:10

Trust Him Proverbs 3:5

Recognize you are fighting a spiritual battle and put on the armor God Ephesians 6:1-17

Expect to be victorious Isaiah 43:2

If you believe He is sovereign and have committed yourself to Him, what is there to worry about, nothing can tough us except what He allows.
These are good points ILNC, but people tend to lose the balance while they're trying to "abide". They either totally lay out and become an emotional and psychological martyr, or they go on the attack against the "enemy" - which is only God bringing adversity to work patience and character in them.

The key is you said is to keep Him ever before you. A King that could forgive in the middle of His own crucifixion is obviously giving us an pattern of total displacement of focus - living, moving, and having our being in Him is apparently pretty extreme.
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Old 06-04-2010, 10:40 AM
 
6,209 posts, read 3,971,902 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristyGrl View Post
We are human Lego, we have a brain/conscience, and we use it to question the things that go on around us. While there is nothing wrong with this, what disturbs me the most is that so many take their theories and explanations and call them "TRUTH", when in all actuality it is nothing but pure speculation. NO ONE no matter how vitriolic they are about their convictions KNOWS WITHOUT A DOUBT THE "TRUTH" OF THE MATTER and if we all want to live in the REAL world we'd be better off admitting that to ourselves and know that it is something we may NEVER KNOW. We hope, speculate, theorize, give explanations we think are true...but the simeple FACTS are WE DON'T REALLY "KNOW" ANYTHING.



This is the fundamental problem with believers who "hope" for something better in some alleged afterlife...they don't do anything about it NOW! They just sit back "hoping and day dreaming about what will happen later" instead of doing something about it NOW! I have had friends say that they don't worry about what's happening in this world cause hey....jesus is coming back and there will be a new world. Unfortunately...many, many, many people in this world have the exact same attitude and NOTHING gets changed.

We, ALL human beings, can put a stop to suffering by getting off our behinds, getting out there in the world, and doing SOMETHING about it NOW!! Suffering will NEVER end if we all sit back, do nothing, and wait for the big god plan to take effect.



This is better known as "facing your mortality" Lego...it's something we all have to do...no matter how much we hope for something better in this world...we will all die. See, I am not content to just sit back and "hope" for something better...I'm into doing. And if more people were into "doing" we could accomplish great things. The legacy I "hope" to leave behind is that we can ALL DO SOMETHING!




I am definitely not content with the way things are in this world but I am also not content to just sit back, watch it all happen, and "hope" the god plan takes effect one day either. It is going to take ALL OF US to make this world a better place, a more tolerant place, a more loving place. That is never going happen when one side tells the other I have the truth and you don't...the every one else is wrong but me syndrome...which causes nothing but strife, war, intolerance and hate. I would love, in my lifetime, to see it all completely eradicated...to see a world where we have mutual respect and tolerance for each others beliefs and to see a world where there is no longer any condemnation or hate for others because they don't believe exactly the way I do...that is what I hope and live for.
Christy, I agree with a lot of what you said here, and I hope you don't take from my posts that I'm just going to sit back and do nothing cause I "hope" it will be better. That is not what I'm talking about.
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Old 06-04-2010, 10:41 AM
 
6,209 posts, read 3,971,902 times
Reputation: 648
Quote:
Originally Posted by I LOVE NORTH CAROLINA View Post
View whatever comes your way as something God is going to use for His greater purpose and your good Romans 8:28.

Keep your focus on the Lord no matter what Isaiah 41:10

Trust Him Proverbs 3:5

Recognize you are fighting a spiritual battle and put on the armor God Ephesians 6:1-17

Expect to be victorious Isaiah 43:2

If you believe He is sovereign and have committed yourself to Him, what is there to worry about, nothing can tough us except what He allows.
Thanks ILNC!
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Old 06-04-2010, 10:54 AM
 
4,108 posts, read 2,281,516 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pneuma View Post
I am with you Christy; the evils in this world have nothing to do with God.

God does not do or create evil.

IMO most try to absolve God of evil by saying He does it for a greater purpose.

IMO this is total hogwash.

God is LOVE and love worketh no evil nor thinketh no evil.

I have tried to help others in this subject, but few have accepted the things I have put forth.

They speak of God being totally sovereign in the earth, but few seem to understand what sovereignty consists of.

Sovereignty always denotes kingship; scripture tells us that the kingdoms of this world are not YET the kingdoms of Christ.

They speak of God will as though it is being done on earth; Yet Jesus taught us to pray “thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven” This is not a redundant prayer.

When God created man, He gave MAN DOMINION over the earth and all that is therein.

Which means God gave man temporary sovereignty over the earth.

Which means God gave man his inheritance and man has and is squandering that inheritance.

Just read the story of the prodigal son.

The father gave his son the son’s inheritance and the son went out from his father a squandered all that he was given.

This story of the prodigal son is the story of MANKIND squandering their inheritance, just look at everything that prodigal went through and you will see that it matches up well with all the crap in the world today.

What I see in these discussions is people blaming the FATHER for all the crap in the world because the Father gave His sons their inheritance.

Mankind has always wanted to blame someone else for the situations they find themselves in; Eve blamed the serpent; Adam blamed his wife and God.

But God would have none of that, He judged each for their own sins.

Yet people continue to blame the FATHER; just as Adam did for all the crap in the world because the Father gave unto His sons their inheritance.

Pneuma, this is pretty much how I see it as well.

Just my opinion:
And God IS Love.
There is nothing non-loving about Him, ever.
There is not God is love.. BUT...
No buts in my mind.
God IS love.
He solely operates out of LOVE, which is WHO God is.
WE are the ones who are starving children to death.
Not God.
"Why doesn't God step in and stop it, then...??"
My answer to that is basically in what Pneuma said in the quote above.
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Old 06-04-2010, 10:57 AM
 
Location: Little Elm, TX
6,947 posts, read 7,355,806 times
Reputation: 4116
I think there's a distinct difference when it comes to how He allows His elect to be treated.

Exhibit A: Golgotha.
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Old 06-04-2010, 12:29 PM
 
Location: Canada
4,274 posts, read 1,665,157 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by .sparrow. View Post
Pneuma, this is pretty much how I see it as well.

Just my opinion:
And God IS Love.
There is nothing non-loving about Him, ever.
There is not God is love.. BUT...
No buts in my mind.
God IS love.
He solely operates out of LOVE, which is WHO God is.
WE are the ones who are starving children to death.
Not God.
"Why doesn't God step in and stop it, then...??"
My answer to that is basically in what Pneuma said in the quote above.
Thank you for posting that sis, I am glad others are starting to see this.
You brought a to my face
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Old 06-04-2010, 01:04 PM
 
Location: Colorado
10,010 posts, read 12,237,426 times
Reputation: 2031
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristyGrl View Post
I am extremely curious about something and these questions are open to anyone who would like to answer them:


Why do you feel the need to give an explanation/purpose for suffering or for anything whether good or bad that happens in this life?

How does accepting that suffering is just a part of life and not some big god plan change things for you or make your current life "hopeless"?

Is your hope of an alleged afterlife really what you dwell on while your living your present life?


I am with you Christy. I dont get it. Seems that the answer, it is gods will is some peoples way of dealing with it, they NEED to think that. Me? No I dont need an explanation, horrors happen, it is life, not gong to be rosey for all. What I dont understand, some say this is a life Lesson, to show us pain or to make us learn sympathy or compassion. So how many more thousands of years do people have to suffer. We already have learned the life lesson. I am a mother of 4, I punish my kids to make them learn, but NEVER would I hurt,starve,kill, torture others to prove a point. That is just cruel and evil.
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Old 06-04-2010, 01:18 PM
 
Location: missouri
1,149 posts, read 713,200 times
Reputation: 148
God operates out of love, rather, as it says, god is love (to operate out of love, if misunderstood, could create a category attributed to god's behavior which is not him; or as something that exists apart from him {a metaphysical category perhaps-for example, god exists in time in not possible, but god has to be time, a time that the time we exist in is only an image of that time). But god obviously has multiple characteristics (if one gets to know him by what is written, rather than thinking up how he/she/it is on one's own authority). Since god is love, why isn't he also wrath? Why not, grows weary? Becomes impatient? And all those other characteristics that the bible attributes to him? The bible does not want a greek pantheon, or resists it. There, all these characteristics were the various gods that actually composed the one god (all religions are monotheistic {the characteristics of nature, the Titans are similar, all compose the one nature; Zeus' defeat of the Titans was the defeat of mind over the natural world). By saying god is love, god is one (the trinity is fine as that composes the concept the one-the sylogism), all these other characteristics are place under love. Theology's job is to work out how such things that we consider "not love" (the "natural mind" as I have been reminded here often, and lazing around in "understanding, rather than complete thought), is actually expressions of love-a difficult task, but then a career builder (although devoid of appreciation by the flock nowadays).
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Old 06-04-2010, 01:20 PM
 
Location: missouri
1,149 posts, read 713,200 times
Reputation: 148
how embarrassing, if any one noticed-it should be, the "victory of mind".....
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