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Old 06-06-2010, 11:30 AM
 
Location: Colorado
10,010 posts, read 11,918,064 times
Reputation: 2027
Quote:
Originally Posted by tigetmax24 View Post
Are we then to believe that there really is such a thing as good and evil?
I believe there is. Just not brought on by any god. Evil is Just brought on by the messed up minds of those that commit it.
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Old 06-06-2010, 12:49 PM
 
Location: East Coast U.S.
1,447 posts, read 839,657 times
Reputation: 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nea1 View Post
I believe there is. Just not brought on by any god. Evil is Just brought on by the messed up minds of those that commit it.
You're making a moral judgment by assigning evil to certain acts that people perpetrate - people with "messed up minds."

Is it objective evil or is it subjective evil?

If there is no God, you would presumably be forced to conclude that all evil is subjective. If such be the case, who are you to pronounce moral judgments upon others? What makes your notion of morality superior to the morality of anyone else? If someone were to conclude that homosexuality is wrong, for instance, would that make it wrong for you as well?

Logically, if you're going to conclude that there is no God and all morality is relative, in essence, there really is no morality and you have no basis on which to condemn others for cruelty or any other "evils" being that all "evils" would only exist in the eye of the individual beholder.
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Old 06-06-2010, 12:53 PM
 
Location: Albuquerque
256 posts, read 234,238 times
Reputation: 250
I am not Christian...but I understand suffering. Without suffering, how would you know the true joy of happiness? How would you learn to be humble?
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Old 06-06-2010, 01:02 PM
 
Location: Blankity-blank!
11,441 posts, read 8,900,770 times
Reputation: 6683
Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman View Post
do you think God has let His creation run amok and evil is running rampant for no reason? In that scenario, God does not care. That would be a hopeless scenario in my mind.
But it's more realistic.
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Old 06-06-2010, 01:20 PM
 
Location: Blankity-blank!
11,441 posts, read 8,900,770 times
Reputation: 6683
Quote:
Originally Posted by tigetmax24 View Post
You're making a moral judgment by assigning evil to certain acts that people perpetrate - people with "messed up minds."

Is it objective evil or is it subjective evil?

If there is no God, you would presumably be forced to conclude that all evil is subjective. If such be the case, who are you to pronounce moral judgments upon others? What makes your notion of morality superior to the morality of anyone else? If someone were to conclude that homosexuality is wrong, for instance, would that make it wrong for you as well?

Logically, if you're going to conclude that there is no God and all morality is relative, in essence, there really is no morality and you have no basis on which to condemn others for cruelty or any other "evils" being that all "evils" would only exist in the eye of the individual beholder.
The best explanation of the concept of 'good' and 'evil' was stated by German philosopher, Friedrich Nietzsche: "There is no good or evil, only what is acceptable or not acceptable."
These concepts change from era to era, also causing suffering.
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Old 06-06-2010, 01:28 PM
 
Location: NC, USA
7,089 posts, read 8,213,777 times
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Or does throwing the attribute of "all-powerful" onto God mean you can throw logic out the window?
That you can believe in any of the mythological gods is throwing logic out the window.
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Old 06-06-2010, 01:40 PM
 
4,083 posts, read 2,492,658 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tigetmax24 View Post
Are we then to believe that there really is such a thing as good and evil?
Yes there is good and evil.... Just look around or look into history. Man is capable of horrendous evil and tremendous good. Within each of us is the ability to do either. We have choices and I make my choices and I live with there consequences. In this world we all have choices and all of our choices have consequences. G-d no more makes you choose one way or another nor does he cause the consequences to your actions, you do.

The world has a natural order and thus earthquakes, floods, fired etc. Its part of the natural order of the world.
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Old 06-06-2010, 01:42 PM
 
4,083 posts, read 2,492,658 times
Reputation: 779
Quote:
Originally Posted by mellanieblue View Post
I am not Christian...but I understand suffering. Without suffering, how would you know the true joy of happiness? How would you learn to be humble?

I don't need to suffer to be humble or know happiness. You also don't need to suffer to learn how t be humble.
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Old 06-06-2010, 02:00 PM
 
Location: East Coast U.S.
1,447 posts, read 839,657 times
Reputation: 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazzymom View Post
Yes there is good and evil.... Just look around or look into history. Man is capable of horrendous evil and tremendous good. Within each of us is the ability to do either. We have choices and I make my choices and I live with there consequences. In this world we all have choices and all of our choices have consequences. G-d no more makes you choose one way or another nor does he cause the consequences to your actions, you do.

The world has a natural order and thus earthquakes, floods, fired etc. Its part of the natural order of the world.
The reason I directed my question at Nea1 is due to her claim that there is no God.

What about you?

You appear to infer here that there is such a thing as objective morality. If you believe in the existence of objective moral values while denying the existence of God, I would be interested in your explanation. How could there be transcendent objective law in the absence of a Transcendent being?
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Old 06-06-2010, 04:49 PM
 
Location: Nanaimo, Canada
988 posts, read 709,535 times
Reputation: 499
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr5150 View Post
The atheist makes his strawman. Then he sets it on fire and thinks he has disproved God.
I'm not going to derail this thread; I'll create another to properly address my concenrs with this statement.

Anyway...to address the OP's post...

I think it comes down to 'Catch 22': if God is all-powerful, he should be able to eliminate suffering, but if God is all powerful, why does suffering exist in the first place?

Interesting thoughts....
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