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The atheist makes his strawman. Then he sets it on fire and thinks he has disproved God.
Quote:
Originally Posted by yeshuasavedme
To any one or all of you professing athiests:
On this forum you take delight in mocking God and mocking Believers in Christ.
Why is it that whenever athiest asks a logical, sincere questionon this forum, they're invariably called out for making strawman arguments and assumed to be trying to disprove God?
I've seen it happen on way too many threads to effectively quote them all, and most of the time it's just a knee-jerk reaction -- half the time the accuser seems to be posting out of habit and doesn't seem to have even read the opening posts fully.
I find that tactic to be both disingenuous and disrespectful to those that start such threads, and I'm calling everyone out in hopes of ending the practice.
Let's try and have a little more respect for our colleagues, please? We may not believe the same things, but that's no reason to be degrading and rude.
Many, if not all religious movements invest A LOT of time and energy indoctrinating their followers to look only where their leaders want them to look. Such mental paterns become set in stone for believers no matter how good the evidence is for the contrary.
Believers are lost to reason but they go so sure they are right that nothing will make them look around them and see the bigger picture.
They are sheep, just as their founders and leaders want them to be. To think an all-wise and all-loving god would create sentient beings, put them on a planet and demand they be sheep?!
Yea, right... only selfish, power hungry men want other men to be sheep. God would want us to grow, to develop, to reason and learn how to do things ourselves.
Just wait, one will come along any minute and say I'm the lost one, that I am a fool for assuming I can do better than god on my own. There's another deeply ingrained indoctrination... the belief that you are only either with god or with the devil. To them there can be no grey area, because greyness leads to doubting, and doubting makes for empty collection plates.
Another good example of indoctrination in action are some of my Mormon family members, who are told from a very young age to only read chuch-approved subject material, and consider everything else "anti-mormon literature" that should be avoided at all costs. Just enough of the "anti" stuff is completely off the wall retarded, insulting and demeaning that it is easy to create a mental catagory in member's heads and include within it anything that does not forward the agenda of the church. The blinders are securely fastened and the instituition marches ever onward, just as intended.
Many atheists on the other hand have the wool pulled from their eyes and are angry and hurt to realize they have been subject to the mechanizations of men, not god. Too many want revenge, or to vent. They feel betrayed and will pull no punches when dealing with their perceived betrayers.
This is all deeply engrained human psychology... I would not expect it to just up and vanish anytime soon.
Why is it that whenever athiest asks a logical, sincere questionon this forum, they're invariably called out for making strawman arguments and assumed to be trying to disprove God?
It is a learned response, when they can't or won't answer a tough question, rather than look like a fool, they go into attack mode.
Why is it that whenever athiest asks a logical, sincere questionon this forum, they're invariably called out for making strawman arguments and assumed to be trying to disprove God?
I've seen it happen on way too many threads to effectively quote them all, and most of the time it's just a knee-jerk reaction -- half the time the accuser seems to be posting out of habit and doesn't seem to have even read the opening posts fully.
I find that tactic to be both disingenuous and disrespectful to those that start such threads, and I'm calling everyone out in hopes of ending the practice.
Let's try and have a little more respect for our colleagues, please? We may not believe the same things, but that's no reason to be degrading and rude.
In reality, a lot of strawman arguments as well as ridicule (said outrigt or implied) happens here, my friend. If you don't see it, I don't know what's wrong with your eyes. I can't even begin to quote all of what's said here, and the comments range from "Sky Daddy" to "that warm and fuzzy feeling" to "the book of fairy tales." I have basic respect for all people here and a little more for certain ones, but you have got to admit, the outright rude replies of some of the posters is just unacceptable. (Although, granted, all people do it; those who attack and those who viciously defend.) And that's not even mentioning the warping of beliefs and generalizing. Lemme quote some twisted things said right here in this thread:
Quote:
Believers are lost to reason
You forget believers who aren't creationists and don't insist evolution is an "insane theory" and have no problems with science.
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They are sheep
Which is why there's such a thing as theology -- putting thought to faith.
Quote:
To think an all-wise and all-loving god would create sentient beings, put them on a planet and demand they be sheep?!
God would certainly never want that. It would be outright abuse of our intelligence. "A blind follower can never find his way to salvation." (That's a good quote -- wonder if someone else has ever said it once.) (Also, P.S., apologies if I misread you in that last quote. Were you saying that God would never want that and that is what goes on? Or that believers say God would and it goes on? I was a bit confused.)
To be fair not all atheist who ask questions here are honest and sincere about it. Not that it really matters. People who do ask honest and sincere questions would be (or are) attacked just the same usually.
It's not possible to a have a rational conversation with irrational people. In some people's minds, anyone who doubts their beliefs are the bad guys, most likely in league with Satan. We're heathens who need to know the truth, or worse yet, we secretly really know the truth and still choose to deny it. Why? Cause we're eviiiiiiiLLLLL!!!!!!
I'm afraid knee jerk reactions and insults aren't going away anytime soon, but hey, I guess we can try.
You forget believers who aren't creationists and don't insist evolution is an "insane theory" and have no problems with science.
Some are more grounded than others, sure. I'm agnostic myself and haven't written off the posiblity of god, but I'm very comfortable with dismissing religion, a seperate matter entirely from spirituality in my mind.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OhioanKid
Which is why there's such a thing as theology -- putting thought to faith.
Yea, but is faith the key to greater knowedge or the chain that keeps you tied to the wall? I know what the sales pitch is, but what is it really?
Quote:
Originally Posted by OhioanKid
God would certainly never want that. It would be outright abuse of our intelligence. "A blind follower can never find his way to salvation." (That's a good quote -- wonder if someone else has ever said it once.) (Also, P.S., apologies if I misread you in that last quote. Were you saying that God would never want that and that is what goes on? Or that believers say God would and it goes on? I was a bit confused.)
I see religion as a human created and evolved group of institutions with very worldly interests. I see no higher power directing or influencing them, only human desires and emotions, both good and bad.
But there is something else; our intuiton or sense of a higher purpose that has lead humans to believe in god(s) and life after death for as long as we've been human. I can't just write it off as a quirk of human psychology, though I've honestly tried. Maybe it is, but something rather "unscientific" in me tells me otherwise.
But since I see no indication of a higher power beyond that, I can only believe that if there is a god and life after death, the purpose of this life is really just to live it. Its for experience, and there are not predetermined rules from set down for how to live it, nor are there any terms and conditions for making it to the next life.
Religion of course says the opposite. There are umpteen flaming hoops you have to jump through (Baptism, 10 comandments, Barmitzfa's, jihad, 10,000 virgin sacrafices to keep Xibalba away, ect, ect) if you want to make it to the good place in the end.
Sheep are much more easily trained to jump through hoops, and a previously trained sheep will willingly strap on a sword and attack a wealthy Jeruselem for greedy kings, or strap on a bomb and blow up a competing mosque, or even just donate loads of tax-free cash. I am not a sheep, and I don't believe god would want me to be one.
Thread closed..Please do not start threads naming/quoting other posters you disagreed with..
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I can't even begin to quote all of what's said here, and the comments range from "Sky Daddy" to "that warm and fuzzy feeling" to "the book of fairy tales." I have basic respect for all people here and a little more for certain ones, but you have got to admit, the outright rude replies of some of the posters is just unacceptable. (Although, granted, all people do it; those who attack and those who viciously defend.) And that's not even mentioning the warping of beliefs and generalizing. Lemme quote some twisted things said right here in this thread:
"A blind follower can never find his way to salvation." (That's a good quote -- wonder if someone else has ever said it once.) (Also, P.S., apologies if I misread you in that last quote. Were you saying that God would never want that and that is what goes on? Or that believers say God would and it goes on? I was a bit confused.)
