Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
The numbers may very well have been small, but I believe that many of its followers were intelligent, highly-educated, well-connected, resolute and well-organised, and that they were widespread from very early on.
Fine! Believe it if you wish...but history disagrees with you.
"341 CE: Many now believe that Christianity became the dominant religion of the Empire through the evangelical efforts of the early church during the fourth century CE. The evidence seems to show that this is not true; "The Greek-Roman world was not...converted to a new religion, but compelled to embrace it." The Emperor Theodosian issued a series of decrees or rescripts in the years 341, 345, 356, 381, 383, 386 and 391 CE. They effect of these orders was to "suppress all rival religions, order the closing of the temples, and impose fines, confiscation, imprisonment or death upon any who cling to the older [Pagan] religions." 2 The period of relative religious tolerance in the Roman Empire ended as Pagan temples were seized and converted to Christian use or destroyed. Priests and Priestesses were exiled or killed. Christianity and Judaism became the only permitted religions. In Spain, bishop Priscillian, who taught some Gnostic beliefs was the first person to be condemned as a heretic and executed by his fellow Christians on religious grounds. The church used the power of the state to begin programs to oppress, exile or exterminate both Pagans and Gnostic Christians. By the end of the century, Pagan temples had been either destroyed or recycled for Christian use. Pagan worship became punishable by death. But government toleration was not without its cost. The Emperor Constantine and later political rulers demanded a major say in the running of the church and in decisions on its beliefs." http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_hise.htm
Fine! Believe it if you wish...but history disagrees with you.
It's hard to argue with 'history', which, as an abstract inanimate entity, is incapable of forming an opinion.
But until you read 'The Judas Secret' and see how cleverly and intricately-constructed the gospels were, you cannot conclude with justification that Christianity's leaders were unintelligent or poorly-educated.
No, but the remark that Christianity would have 'died without Constantine' seems to imply that it was in some sort of terminal decline.
It implies nothing of the sort. Better to read it as it's written rather than add to it. If I say that my car engine will die without petrol, it does not imply that it is already dying through lack of fuel, only that it WILL die in the future if I don't refill it.
Woo pie!! I'm mad. Is this David Hume or John Stuart Mill?
I submit at last. Bigot Capitalist Wars for England instead of America. BUt how does one explain the dualism of reflection in Empirical thinking? We reflect into history and into religious memory.
Jesus Was A Failure
By looking at the Christians, even Jesus would have to admit that he was failure as a teacher. All his sermons have been spoken to deaf ears; a holy waste of time. His purpose was that all sinners should be forgiven, this he did. Why did he live for 33 years? He could have been crucified immediately after being born.
Those who call themselves Christians cannot quote any of Jesus’s teachings. They are more likely to quote the bible, evangelists, religious figures, athletes, and politicians. Obviously, the sermons that Jesus taught went in one ear and out the other.
There was the human Jesus and there was the divine Jesus. The first I have argued earlier was capably a sinner though His sins were well accounted for in the universalist essence.
Fine! Believe it if you wish...but history disagrees with you.
"341 CE: Many now believe that Christianity became the dominant religion of the Empire through the evangelical efforts of the early church during the fourth century CE. The evidence seems to show that this is not true; "The Greek-Roman world was not...converted to a new religion, but compelled to embrace it." The Emperor Theodosian issued a series of decrees or rescripts in the years 341, 345, 356, 381, 383, 386 and 391 CE. They effect of these orders was to "suppress all rival religions, order the closing of the temples, and impose fines, confiscation, imprisonment or death upon any who cling to the older [Pagan] religions." 2 The period of relative religious tolerance in the Roman Empire ended as Pagan temples were seized and converted to Christian use or destroyed. Priests and Priestesses were exiled or killed. Christianity and Judaism became the only permitted religions. In Spain, bishop Priscillian, who taught some Gnostic beliefs was the first person to be condemned as a heretic and executed by his fellow Christians on religious grounds. The church used the power of the state to begin programs to oppress, exile or exterminate both Pagans and Gnostic Christians. By the end of the century, Pagan temples had been either destroyed or recycled for Christian use. Pagan worship became punishable by death. But government toleration was not without its cost. The Emperor Constantine and later political rulers demanded a major say in the running of the church and in decisions on its beliefs." Early history of Christianity: 170 to 590 CE
Religioustolerance.org is very much a group with an agenda. Generally speaking it's quite pro-pagan and opposed to orthodox Christianity. Its writers are not valid historians so far as I know. For example it fails to mention that St. Ambrose, St. Martin, and the Pope of the day opposed killing the Priscillians.
That said it is true that the Western Roman Empire remained largely pagan after Constantine. The strong areas for Christianity were the Greek and Mideastern world. Theodosius also likely did hope to find religious justification for his rule as many have.
Still this doesn't tell us much about Christianity surviving, particularly not in the East, so you might be confusing things here. Christianity has survived in India since ancient times without ever being the official faith of any major kingdom there. (Or minor kingdom either so far as I can recall) The Coptic Church has survived in Egypt despite the nation being led by Muslims since the seventh century. So Christianity, like many other religions, can survive or even thrive without having official status or even with having official second-class status.
Because the messages of ignorant, primitive mankind who believed the earth was flat and the universe revolved around it, has passed his senseless ancient god message from generation to generation by the brainwashing of innocent, gullible infants and small children.
It would be ignorant to believe that Jesus message, or the Bible ever suggested the earth was flat, or the universe revolved around us. This is the kind of thinking that is often embraced by non thinkers. Of course if Jesus was a Failure, such a belief could be seen in His Word.
It implies nothing of the sort. Better to read it as it's written rather than add to it.
You said 'would have lived and died' (post 79), complained when this was interpreted as 'dying out', and falsely added that what you said was 'would have come and gone' (post 102).
When I then say that 'would have died' seems to imply 'terminal', you complain that this is not what you've written and that I have added to what you said.
When you get on your high horse about something, it's best not to be guilty of it yourself. Hypocrisy is not an attractive trait.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
