U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Happy Halloween!
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Real Estate > Renting
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 1.5 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Jump to a detailed profile or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Business Search - 14 Million verified businesses
Search for:  near: 
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 08-08-2013, 05:45 PM
 
Location: St Thomas, US Virgin Islands
21,642 posts, read 25,242,745 times
Reputation: 22330
It IS crazy and I don't believe it could be legal in any jurisdiction. I wonder if the owners of the complex are aware of these new rules ...

If I were you I'd put in a call tomorrow morning to either Legal Aid or to an attorney from whom you can get a low or no-fee initial consult and confirm with them whether or not this is legal. I'd be most curious to know what happens if you can get back to the forum with a follow-up.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 08-08-2013, 05:45 PM
 
Location: Tampa, Florida
10,920 posts, read 9,548,534 times
Reputation: 5808
Quote:
Originally Posted by dnamommy View Post
Is ANY of this legal??
No.

Quote:
As far as the curfew issue is concerned, she says she will be coming around to get everyone's signature on this or they will be evicted. I hate being a trouble-maker, but this is crazy!
Also not legal. Basic contract law 101 says that once a signed agreement is in place one cannot force another to sign an amendment to the contract.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-08-2013, 09:52 PM
 
Location: Kansas City North
2,095 posts, read 2,728,905 times
Reputation: 1758
Quote:
Originally Posted by dnamommy View Post
Our apartment manager recently imposed a "new rule", saying that children under the age of 18 must b e indoors by 8PM, and adults over 18 must be indoors by 10PM.
This IS nuts. What happens when I come home from work at 1:00 a.m.? Are they going to nab me in the parking lot? And what if I want to sit quietly on my patio/balcony before I go to bed? That would be outside.....

And what if Fido needs to go out at 3 am? Oh, never mind, he can just pee on the carpet.

The list is endless.........
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-08-2013, 10:32 PM
 
Location: Retired in Redding, CA!
6,356 posts, read 3,901,088 times
Reputation: 5892
Whoa nuts. Control freak manager.

I understand wanting to control noise, etc., but this is not the way to do it.

Manager needs to give specific warnings to specific tenants about noise problems, then follow up.

Telling someone to put their shirt on is completely out of control, unreasonable behavior on the part of the manager.

The manager obviously has a problem to deal with, but doesn't know how to go about it properly. Glad I don't have his/her job LOL! Sounds like the property from hell.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-09-2013, 08:22 AM
 
2,119 posts, read 2,272,135 times
Reputation: 2034
Quote:
Originally Posted by dnamommy View Post
Our apartment manager recently imposed a "new rule", saying that children under the age of 18 must b e indoors by 8PM, and adults over 18 must be indoors by 10PM. Then, to top it off, TODAY she was walking by when my husband and a friend of his (another tenant) were sitting outside. The friend just happened to be shirtless. The manager told him to go put a shirt on, he could not be on premises without a shirt. He told her he'd go put on one in a few minutes. She actually told him he had to do it right then, and she'd stand there and wait until he did!

Is ANY of this legal?? She claims it is in the lease, but I sure can't find it. As far as the curfew issue is concerned, she says she will be coming around to get everyone's signature on this or they will be evicted. I hate being a trouble-maker, but this is crazy!
Just because it is in the lease, doesn't make it legal. I hate when people assume that if it is in the lease that landlords can enforce it and renters have to abide by it.

They can not enforce you to wear a shirt. There is no law that says you cn't be outside without a shirt (man). Some cities, such a NYC, even allow women to go topless if they wish.

She can not also enforce adults to be in doors by 10pm, or even children by 8pm. Who the heck does this person think she is?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-09-2013, 08:41 AM
 
3,458 posts, read 2,929,377 times
Reputation: 6888
If you do some research, you're going to find that apartment complex curfews are becoming common. It cannot be aimed at just children, but has to apply to everyone in the complex and has to be in the lease.

The landlord or manager can get away with it, by closing common areas in the complex at a certain time. Common areas can be a pool or clubhouse, but they can also mean lawns walkways, parking lots, etc.
The rule wouldn't say you could not be outside, but it could say there can be no loitering. That means you can go back and forth to your car or purposefully walk your dog, but couldn't hang around outside doing nothing.

It's an interesting topic and different courts have looked at if different ways.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-09-2013, 11:47 AM
 
Location: Tampa, Florida
10,920 posts, read 9,548,534 times
Reputation: 5808
Quote:
Originally Posted by willow wind View Post
If you do some research, you're going to find that apartment complex curfews are becoming common. It cannot be aimed at just children, but has to apply to everyone in the complex and has to be in the lease.
Even then, the legality of it would be highly questionable.

Quote:
The landlord or manager can get away with it, by closing common areas in the complex at a certain time. Common areas can be a pool or clubhouse, but they can also mean lawns walkways, parking lots, etc.
They could close the pool or clubhouses, but "closing" lawns, walkways and parking lots would not fly. It's also probably a violation of local building and fire codes.

Quote:
The rule wouldn't say you could not be outside, but it could say there can be no loitering. That means you can go back and forth to your car or purposefully walk your dog, but couldn't hang around outside doing nothing.
Doubt that would work either, as by definition a tenant cannot "loiter" on his property.

Quote:
loiter v. to linger or hang around in a public place or business where one has no particular or legal purpose. In many states, cities, and towns there are statutes or ordinances against loitering by which the police can arrest someone who refuses to "move along." There is a question as to whether such laws are constitutional. However, there is often another criminal statute or ordinance which can be applied specifically to control aggressive begging, soliciting prostitution, drug dealing, blocking entries to stores, public drunkenness, or being a public nuisance.
loiter legal definition of loiter. loiter synonyms by the Free Online Law Dictionary.

Quote:
It's an interesting topic and different courts have looked at if different ways.
I'd be interested to see the case law on it, if you are so inclined.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-09-2013, 07:04 PM
 
3,766 posts, read 4,087,187 times
Reputation: 3852
Quote:
Originally Posted by dnamommy View Post
Our apartment manager recently imposed a "new rule", saying that children under the age of 18 must b e indoors by 8PM, and adults over 18 must be indoors by 10PM. Then, to top it off, TODAY she was walking by when my husband and a friend of his (another tenant) were sitting outside. The friend just happened to be shirtless. The manager told him to go put a shirt on, he could not be on premises without a shirt. He told her he'd go put on one in a few minutes. She actually told him he had to do it right then, and she'd stand there and wait until he did!

Is ANY of this legal?? She claims it is in the lease, but I sure can't find it. As far as the curfew issue is concerned, she says she will be coming around to get everyone's signature on this or they will be evicted. I hate being a trouble-maker, but this is crazy!
Sign nothing!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-09-2013, 09:06 PM
 
3,458 posts, read 2,929,377 times
Reputation: 6888
Here's the thing. When someone rents, they do not own the unit they rent. They are on private property. The landlord owns the property. The tenants' lease and the terms of the lease give them the right to be there.

The landlord can put in the lease anything they like. If you sign it, then you are agreeing to the terms.
When a landlord tries to restrict what people are doing outside their units, it's not legally a curfew, it's a limitation on use of amenities and common areas.

The landlord can't call the police on you unless you are doing something illegal. If you are violating a term of a lease, then the landlord sees it as a violation of the lease and can evict the tenant. No one posting on this topic is saying that landlords are locking the actual living areas of buildings shut or chaining the access drives to parking lots, etc.

Read here for some info on tenant/landlord rights and responsibilities

https://www.clientspace.org/guide.as...level=3&id=379

Note in particular the section on new lease policies.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-10-2013, 05:30 AM
 
Location: St Thomas, US Virgin Islands
21,642 posts, read 25,242,745 times
Reputation: 22330
Quote:
Originally Posted by willow wind View Post
The landlord can put in the lease anything they like. If you sign it, then you are agreeing to the terms.
It's my understanding, however, that any lease clause which contradicts/violates federal or state laws is illegal and can't be upheld.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $84,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Real Estate > Renting

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2014, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25 - Top