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Old 12-06-2011, 06:52 PM
 
Location: 39 20' 59"N / 75 30' 53"W
12,188 posts, read 12,693,068 times
Reputation: 13618

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kim in FL View Post
So, you have no idea if this type of clause is illegal or not.
As I said, depends on the state. In Delaware it would be illegal to include "no over night guests" in the lease and other states as well.

All it takes is a google search.
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Old 12-06-2011, 07:03 PM
 
4,820 posts, read 6,372,371 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by virgode View Post
As I said, depends on the state. In Delaware it would be illegal to include "no over night guests" in the lease and other states as well.

All it takes is a google search.

From what I was reading in the Florida Tenant/Landlord law, this clause wouldn't be illegal and the tenant could be evicted if they violated the clause.

In fact, the law clearly says "unauthorized pets, guests" etc....
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Old 12-06-2011, 07:10 PM
 
439 posts, read 574,464 times
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in nys the land lord cannot do
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Old 12-06-2011, 07:14 PM
 
Location: 39 20' 59"N / 75 30' 53"W
12,188 posts, read 12,693,068 times
Reputation: 13618
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kim in FL View Post
So, you have no idea if this type of clause is illegal or not.

These two sites are for Florida...nothing prohibits over night guests.

http://www.floridabar.org/TFB/TFBRes...df?OpenElement
Occasional overnight guests are permitted. An occasional overnight guest is one who does not staymore than _______ nights in any calendar month (If left blank, 7). Landlord’s written approval is required to allow anyone else to occupy thePremises

http://cdn.publicinterestnetwork.org...Rights-2.1.pdf
3. No one but tenant and immediate family may live in apartment: this may prohibit subleasing, pets, and extended visits by friends or relatives.
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Old 12-06-2011, 07:34 PM
 
8,338 posts, read 22,614,083 times
Reputation: 8100
As far as legality goes, you'll need to check the tenant rights laws of the state where the apartment is located.

I know that in my rental properties in a resort area, having occupants in a unit that aren't on the lease is very problematic. So we specify that anybody who is a "guest" for more than three nights and has all the appearances of moving in; ie, clothing far in excess of a visit stay duration, household furnishings, out of season sports gear stored in the utility spaces (like bicycles in the middle of ski season), and local employment ... is more than likely a "tenant" and not a "guest". We require that the new tenant come into the property manager's office and sign onto the lease.

The problem that has surfaced several times is that we have a lease with a couple of people in a unit, say a 4-bedroom house. They invite girl/boy friends to stay with them but don't get them on the lease. At some point in time, there's parting of the ways and the occupant isn't on the lease, isn't responsible for the lease/rent payment, and has no obligation for rent as a squatter. Yet it takes me several months of lost revenues and ongoing utilities expenses plus the potential for personal liability exposure on the premises to evict the squatters. This gets especially difficult for me when the normal seasonal turn-over of tenants and new leases is impossible because I've got occupants in the house so cannot rent it out to other (paying) tenants. I've had this happen more than several times and the losses now exceed $100,000, so I'm a bit sensitive about being abused this way.

Why certain folk believe that I "owe" them their living quarters and utilities in a resort area is beyond me, but as I write this I am pursuing one group of tenants that lead to a shortage of over $12,000 on the rent payments ... as well, they trashed out my house to the tune of almost $20,000 in damage to the place. Broken fixtures, torn up window coverings, holes punched in walls, closet doors punched through or broken apart/removed, window fixtures broken, windows broken, and 2.5 tons of trash or abandoned personal effects left in the house requiring a lot of labor (and trash dump trips and fees) to clean out. Carpets? forget it, they simply had to be replaced due to spills, debris, and cigarette burn holes.

As a landlord, do you think I'd want to rent to people who are in a position to leave me with this kind of exposure? sorry, but I've been there enough times ... with other 20-somethings ... to not want to do it again. Consider, too, that I pay for certain utilities which are anticipated expenses based upon the number of tenants in a house; it makes a big difference in the water & sewer bills when I've got 8-10 people living in a house rather than the 4 that it was rented to. Additionally, wear and tear is a big item with so many people in the house when more are living there, especially if they have no sense of responsibility to the property because they have no financial obligation in living there.
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Old 12-06-2011, 09:01 PM
 
Location: Chicago
36,660 posts, read 58,119,052 times
Reputation: 25733
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunsprit View Post
As far as legality goes, you'll need to check the tenant rights laws of the state where the apartment is located.

I know that in my rental properties in a resort area, having occupants in a unit that aren't on the lease is very problematic. So we specify that anybody who is a "guest" for more than three nights and has all the appearances of moving in; ie, clothing far in excess of a visit stay duration, household furnishings, out of season sports gear stored in the utility spaces (like bicycles in the middle of ski season), and local employment ... is more than likely a "tenant" and not a "guest". We require that the new tenant come into the property manager's office and sign onto the lease.

The problem that has surfaced several times is that we have a lease with a couple of people in a unit, say a 4-bedroom house. They invite girl/boy friends to stay with them but don't get them on the lease. At some point in time, there's parting of the ways and the occupant isn't on the lease, isn't responsible for the lease/rent payment, and has no obligation for rent as a squatter. Yet it takes me several months of lost revenues and ongoing utilities expenses plus the potential for personal liability exposure on the premises to evict the squatters. This gets especially difficult for me when the normal seasonal turn-over of tenants and new leases is impossible because I've got occupants in the house so cannot rent it out to other (paying) tenants. I've had this happen more than several times and the losses now exceed $100,000, so I'm a bit sensitive about being abused this way.

Why certain folk believe that I "owe" them their living quarters and utilities in a resort area is beyond me, but as I write this I am pursuing one group of tenants that lead to a shortage of over $12,000 on the rent payments ... as well, they trashed out my house to the tune of almost $20,000 in damage to the place. Broken fixtures, torn up window coverings, holes punched in walls, closet doors punched through or broken apart/removed, window fixtures broken, windows broken, and 2.5 tons of trash or abandoned personal effects left in the house requiring a lot of labor (and trash dump trips and fees) to clean out. Carpets? forget it, they simply had to be replaced due to spills, debris, and cigarette burn holes.

As a landlord, do you think I'd want to rent to people who are in a position to leave me with this kind of exposure? sorry, but I've been there enough times ... with other 20-somethings ... to not want to do it again. Consider, too, that I pay for certain utilities which are anticipated expenses based upon the number of tenants in a house; it makes a big difference in the water & sewer bills when I've got 8-10 people living in a house rather than the 4 that it was rented to. Additionally, wear and tear is a big item with so many people in the house when more are living there, especially if they have no sense of responsibility to the property because they have no financial obligation in living there.
Uhm.... wow. Kinda totally ranted right past the question.
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Old 12-06-2011, 09:33 PM
 
8,338 posts, read 22,614,083 times
Reputation: 8100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drover View Post
Uhm.... wow. Kinda totally ranted right past the question.
Uhm .... wow. Why is it when you explain your rationale behind your answers that it's an enlightening message to all on the forum and when others do the same thing it's ranting "right past the question"?

Thanks for the education, professor.
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Old 12-06-2011, 09:39 PM
 
Location: Chicago
36,660 posts, read 58,119,052 times
Reputation: 25733
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunsprit View Post
Uhm .... wow. Why is it when you explain your rationale behind your answers that it's an enlightening message to all on the forum and when others do the same thing it's ranting "right past the question"?

Thanks for the education, professor.
It's not that the difference is between who is explaining their rationale, but whether it's even relevant to the question asked.

You're welcome, Eager One.
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Old 12-07-2011, 06:51 AM
 
4,820 posts, read 6,372,371 times
Reputation: 4653
Quote:
Originally Posted by virgode View Post
These two sites are for Florida...nothing prohibits over night guests.

http://www.floridabar.org/TFB/TFBRes...df?OpenElement
Occasional overnight guests are permitted. An occasional overnight guest is one who does not staymore than _______ nights in any calendar month (If left blank, 7). Landlordís written approval is required to allow anyone else to occupy thePremises

http://cdn.publicinterestnetwork.org...Rights-2.1.pdf
3. No one but tenant and immediate family may live in apartment: this may prohibit subleasing, pets, and extended visits by friends or relatives.

huh...that's not what I read. interesting.

I'll have to go back and post the link.
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Old 12-07-2011, 06:52 AM
 
Location: St Thomas, US Virgin Islands
22,568 posts, read 27,275,301 times
Reputation: 23158
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drover View Post
Quiet enjoyment has little to do with contracts. It's implied in any leasehold whether it's explicitly laid out in the lease or not. Interfering with a tenant's reasonable use of the property is indeed a violation of this covenant. Few if any courts would enforce a "no overnight visitors ever under any circumstances" rule except maybe under some unusual circumstance.
A lease (and this is what this thread is about) is a contract. My apologies for not having been more specific.

A google of "landlord/tenant laws covenant of quiet enjoyment definition" or similar brings up the legal definition on many different sites. The following is one of many:

Quiet enjoyment legal definition of Quiet enjoyment. Quiet enjoyment synonyms by the Free Online Law Dictionary.
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